'Hitler's Pope' saved thousands of Jewish lives

Telegraph ^ | July 6, 2010 | Simon Caldwell

[Petrosius]

Pope Pius XII, the controversial wartime pontiff, may have saved thousands of Jews by secretly securing visas so they could escape Nazi Germany, a historian has claimed.

Pope Pius, who was labelled “Hitler’s Pope” because of his silence during the Holocaust, may have arranged the exodus of about 200,000 Jews from Germany just three weeks after Kristallnacht, when thousands of Jews were rounded up and sent to concentration camps.

[TSgt]

Boogedy boogedy boo

[Hegewisch Dupa]

I find FReepers who object to open debate disturbing.

"Open Debate" = I post doctored pics, you deal with it. If youze guys try to make coherent points, I talk gibberish. Also, no quoting that Einstein idiot.

[Judith Anne]

Well put.

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Aww JA - on one hand, thank you kindly! On the other hand, five fingers (sorry, one of my fave dumb jokes). Really, on the other hand I feel bad dragging you into one of these crazy hater threads :(

[D-fendr]

Boogedy boogedy boo

Good. A concise description of your position.

[annie laurie]

TSgt, you may not have seen Mrs. Don-o's kind reply to you regarding this same photo on another thread. (Thanks, Mrs D., for taking the time to share this information with all of us! Well done! :))

Here's the link to her post:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2540785/posts?page=524#524

To: TSgt; wagglebee

I don't have time togo through all the pics, which are not identified as to person, place, time, or source (which significantly reduces their documentary persuasiveness--- but perhaps you will supply these?) In reality, however, Eugenio Pacelli, both before and after he became Pope Pius XII, never met Adolf Hitler. Pacelli's contacts were limited to subordinates in the German government. Moreover, the book's cover photo is not of Pope Pius XII visiting the Third Reich but of the then-Archbishop Pacelli as nuncio to Germany in 1927 -- six full years before Hitler came to power in Germany (1933) and 12 years before Pacelli became Pope Pius XII (1939).

As it says in tiny print on the back flap of the book's jacket:

"Eugenio Pacelli, before his election to the papacy, leaving a reception for President Hindenburg in Berlin, 1927."

Worse yet, this photo -- which has been used before in its full clarity -- is now cropped and blurred so one cannot easily see that the two German soldiers surrounding Pacelli are not Nazis but ordinary German soldiers in the pre-Nazi Weimar Republic! If this is not (adverently or inadvertently) lying through a picture, what is?

524 posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:21:23 AM by Mrs. Don-o ("Be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks the reason for the hope you have." 1 Peter 3:15) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 514 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

[D-fendr]

Golda Meir, Israel’s representative to the United Nations, on the news of Pope Pius XII’s death: "

"We share in the grief of humanity at the passing away of His Holiness, Pope Pius XII. In a generation afflicted by wars and discords he upheld the highest ideals of peace and compassion. When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the Pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace."

[D-fendr]

"Above all, we acknowledge the Supreme Pontiff and the religious men and women who, executing the directives of the Holy Father, recognized the persecuted of their brothers and, with great abnegation, hastened to help them, disregarding the terrible dangers to which they were exposed."

Testimony of Dr. Joseph Nathan, who represented the Hebrew Commission, addressing the Jewish community at the end of World War II.

[OLD REGGIE]

Do not expect honesty and balance from the anti-Catholics. While they attempt to nibble around the edges of decency with historical innuendo and fabricated quotes and photos they will never address the root of German antisemitism within Luther and Calvin or the willing participation in the holocaust by the German Protestant Church who was rewarded with the Nazi Cabinet Level position of Reichbishop. Nor will they mention that the Nazi party polled 2-3 times higher among Protestants than Catholics in the German elections of the 1930s.

Honesty (forget balance for the moment) demands an accurate presentation of "fact". Let's examine just one of those "facts". "...they will never address the root of German antisemitism within Luther and Calvin"

In fact Anti-semitism was a practice of the Catholic Church from early times. To be fair, various Popes from time to time, attempted to address the problem of anti-semitism. Sadly however the succeeding Popes always returned to anti-semitic practice.

ANTI-SEMITE POPES

The fact is the root of anti=semitism began long before either Luther or Calvin was born.

FACT: Pope Paul IV established a Jewish Ghetto in Rome - 1555.

JEWISH GHETTO'S ESTABLISHED IN 1555 BY POPE PAUL IV

FACT: The Rome Ghetto remained until the Vatican States were defeated in war -1870.

Honesty demands a retraction of the false claim "the root of German antisemitism within Luther and Calvin".

[Natural Law]

"Honesty demands a retraction of the false claim "the root of German antisemitism within Luther and Calvin".

Honesty demands an acknowledgment of the culpability of the so-called reformers in the inherent antisemitism within the German Protestant Culture still present over 400 years after the schism. This antisemitism lent the Nazi party significant popular support as measured by voting results, party membership and the state sponsored German Protestant Church under Reichbishop Muller.

Honesty demands that problems inherent in human imperfection, whether it be antisemitism or child abuse, be acknowledged as something other than a Catholic problem by the anti-Catholics who preach to each other on FR>

[OLD REGGIE]

(OLD REGGIE) "Honesty demands a retraction of the false claim "the root of German antisemitism within Luther and Calvin".

Honesty demands an acknowledgment of the culpability of the so-called reformers in the inherent antisemitism within the German Protestant Culture still present over 400 years after the schism. This antisemitism lent the Nazi party significant popular support as measured by voting results, party membership and the state sponsored German Protestant Church under Reichbishop Muller.

Prattle. Prattle. Smoke. Smoke. Is it impossible for you to stay on subject? I addressed your claims only These claims are demonstrably false and honesty demands an admittance that the claims are false.

Dictionary.com

false   /fɔls/ Show Spelled [fawls] Show IPA adjective, fals·er, fals·est, adverb –adjective

1. not true or correct; erroneous: a false statement.

Truth is a virtue. Try it. It might be a pleasant experience.

[Natural Law]

" I addressed your claims only"

But you did not refute them. You only stated claimed that it must be OK because others have done it too. The bottom line is that there is a reason that German antisemitism ran deeper among the Protestants than Catholics and that reason was the biases of the so-called reformers.

[RobbyS]

Plus the fact that in 1940, Christians in the Reich were about two-thirds Protestant, and one-third Catholic. The pro-Nazi national Church was almost exclusively Protestant.

[OLD REGGIE]

(OLD REGGIE) "I addressed your claims only"

But you did not refute them. You only stated claimed that it must be OK because others have done it too. The bottom line is that there is a reason that German antisemitism ran deeper among the Protestants than Catholics and that reason was the biases of the so-called reformers.

Of course your claims were refuted. The ROOT of anti-semitism began with the Catholic Church and the Popes well before Luther or Calvin were born.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "root" in the context in which you used it?

Dictionary.com Root:

7. the source or origin of a thing: The love of money is the root of all evil.
*********************************************************

The following is completly untrue (a lie).

"You only stated claimed that it must be OK because others have done it too."

I never said, claimed, or even intimated anti-semitism was OK.

If you find it impossible to be truthful I can see no reason to continue with this discussion.

[small voice in the wilderness]

Of course your claims were refuted. The ROOT of anti-semitism began with the Catholic Churc

Why is that, in your opinion? Is it because the Catholic Church believes and teaches that she is Israel? And that she has replaced Israel in God's eyes?

I'm trying to understand. Thanks

[Natural Law]

"The ROOT of anti-semitism began with the Catholic Church and the Popes well before Luther or Calvin were born."

Don't attempt to prove your point with the same methodology of incomplete information and out of context quips that are so often used here to defend Protestant dogma. Antisemitism predated the Catholic Church by more than 1500 years. There are many historical examples within ancient Egyptian, Phoenician, Greek and Roman history.

Blaming the disproportionate German Protestant antisemitism on the Catholic Church is as vacuous and Obama blaming all of his problems on Bush. 400 years after Luther published his books condemning Jews and Judaism and Calvin preached against them from his pulpit they bear burden of the fruits from seeds they planted and encouraged.

[OLD REGGIE]

Plus the fact that in 1940, Christians in the Reich were about two-thirds Protestant, and one-third Catholic. The pro-Nazi national Church was almost exclusively Protestant.

One of the most disturbing things was their oath of loyalty to the German Reich.

Article 16

Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula: "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it."

Oh wait! That was the Catholic Church. NEVER MIND!

[OLD REGGIE]

Plus the fact that in 1940, Christians in the Reich were about two-thirds Protestant, and one-third Catholic. The pro-Nazi national Church was almost exclusively Protestant.

One of the most disturbing things was their oath of loyalty to the German Reich.

Article 16

Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula: "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it."

Oh wait! That was the Catholic Church. NEVER MIND!

[OLD REGGIE]

Why is that, in your opinion? Is it because the Catholic Church believes and teaches that she is Israel? And that she has replaced Israel in God's eyes?

I'm trying to understand. Thanks

It has nothing to do with my opinion and everything to do with the repetitively false claim by Natural Law that the root of anti-semitism began with Luther and Calvin.

I simply provided proof that anti-semitism was practiced by the RCC many years before the birth of Luther or Calvin.

[small voice in the wilderness]

You’re right, of course. I was just interested in your opinion on the “why” of it all. Thanks for your reply! Maranatha