Replies

The priest failed, not the Church.

You may well be right, in this case. I don't know. Don't really WANT to know.

I DO KNOW that every organization--including every Christian organization--the better ones and the poorest ones--I've ever been close to . . . the leadership

IN ALL OF THEM

HAS FAILED SIGNIFICANTLY, SERIOUSLY IN AT LEAST ONE WAY OR ANOTHER--usually for an extended period.

And, I think it is ABUNDANTLY EVIDENT that the Vatican system and major parts of its hierarchy have failed a lot of children and parents and parishioners over the last decades in this mess. That general, basic statement seems to be inescapable, to me, in all this horror.

The contention that "The priest failed, not the Church." . . . may be accurate in specific cases. It is NOT accurate over all over the decades involved.

Very very few RC's hereon seem willing to admit that. Proddys hereon are quite familiar with that level of denial on the part of a huge percentage of the RC's hereon. It seems to be an inherent, chronic, compulsive aspect of the whole system and most of those immersed in it.

Some of us Proddys are convinced that

THAT LEVEL OF CHRONIC DENIAL ABOUT THE FLAWS OF THE VATICAN SYSTEM

Are a major factor in all manner of junk within that system.

To us--given that chronic level of serious denial--evidently at all levels of the organization--the horrors of the sexual abuse mess would be somewhat inevitable.

Personally, I think it is extremely difficult to keep ANY large organization kosher on any list of values and criteria. However, there are LEADERSHIP styles, issues and structures that make it easier and others that make it more difficult to keep a large organization ship-shape--particularly in terms of morals, doctrine and the like.

We Proddys OBSERVE hereon, EXTREMELY STRIDENT and often rather haughty EXCLUCIVIST blather about how pristine, saintly, protected, ordered-of-God etc. the Vatican system is.

Given the REALITIES that Proddys have to contend with--being 'outside the Vatican fold'--and the perspective that affords--such contentions are ABSURDLY FARCICAL ON THEIR FACE. Yet, curiously, extremely few RC's hereon ever come close to admitting such realities--even part of such realities, much less understanding even why we would have such an unshakable conviction and set of observations of the Vatican system.

Given such evident DISASSOCIATION from "objective" "REALITY," that makes it extremely difficult to have the least bit of confidence in even their most emphatic assertions.

Now, in this mess, on thread after thread, we have the usual Vatican apologists--understandably--it is honorable to stand up for one's reference groups, after all--the usual contenders rant on and on about how Proddys are not dealing in reality. Proddys are accused of denying their own denominational sins--supposedly to worse degrees, about worse crimes or percentages than the Vatican system. etc. etc. etc.

Actually, even on that score, they are wrong. A number of Proddys hereon have admitted facts many times over.

I am close to despairing of any increase in mutual respect and understanding occurring at all, between the two camps hereon.

To me, this mess vividly illustrates two FACTS about the Vatican system and MOST RC's hereon. No, not opinions, nor even per se interpretable observations, FACTS.

1. The Vatican system will virtually always--first, most, and usually for a long time--DENY VIRTUALLY ANY FAULT, ANY FLAW, ANY ERROR, ANY CRIME, ANY SIN--often without much of any rational support for the denial, at all.

2. Most of the RC masses will similarly seemingly lack much of any significant level of insight into themselves as well as lack much of any significant level of insight into their organization. Yet, they will insist that THEY have perfect theology, 100% ordained directly from God, administered and applied almost 100% perfectly by their leaders and maybe somewhat slightly less perfectly by most faithful folks in the pews.

At that point, Proddys are shaking their heads and looking for the barf bag at the absurdities of such charades. Who are they fooling?

CERTAINLY NOT GOD!
CERTAINLY NOT THOUGHTFUL, PERCEPTIVE PRODDYS [probably a minority of Proddys manage thoughtful and perceptive hugely well, but that's another story--also a very human story].
AND NOT THE WATCHING WORLD.

Most Proddys hereon are not so delusional as to fantasize that any of our blather is likely to change the mind and understanding of any of the RC's hereon whatsoever.

However, some days, given such as the responses of soooo many RC's hereon to some of the reasonably confirmed basics of this abuse mess--many Proddys are again asking themselves if there's the LEAST CHANCE AT ALL of having ANY meaningful, mutual understanding dialogue AT ALL. The huge stacks of evidence seem to indicate--only when there's a snowball fight in hell.

That's dreadfully sad, to me. Even a lot of the rabid clique sorts of RC's hereon are reasonably easy to love. Certainly the rest are. And some of you are easy to love, A LOT.

AND, we CERTAINLY have plenty of satanic stuff to contend with as fellow believers supporting one another in such efforts.

Therefore what, I don't know. I just felt a need to review with you why so many of us Proddys hereon are so incredulous about such chronic double standard stuff, outright falsehoods, willfully blind denial etc.

I do greatly appreciate that you seem to be largely free of some of the more outrageously hideous craziness, duplicities etc. Praise God and thank you for that.