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To: Natural Law; RnMomof7; Dutchboy88; boatbums; TSgt; the_conscience; Gamecock; Frumanchu; ...
Calvinists often viewed laughter, happiness, and pleasure as suspect and undesirable...The theocracy Calvin established in sixteenth-century Geneva, Switzerland (not democracy or republic as some have foolishly or disingenuously suggested)

lol. Your description of Geneva is ludicrous but typical of anti-Protestant bigots who know nothing of history other than what their biased catechism teaches them. Geneva was governed by an elected representative government of two councils, a larger council like our House of Representatives and and smaller house, like our Senate. (I'm repeating your history lesson hoping it sinks in this time.)

Proclaiming "the chief duty of man is to glorify God," Calvin...

Pity that is not what Rome considers to be the chief duty of man. Rome would be a lot less corrupt if it understood that truth.

Regarding Calvin's Geneva...

JOHN CALVIN
FROM SECOND REFORM IN GENEVA TO DEATH (1541-1564)

INTRODUCTION

1. From 1536 to 1538 Calvin had great authority in Geneva. This was his first attempt at reform, but he pushed the reform too quickly, for the city was not ready for any kind of stern discipline. The city council removed Calvin and Farel from Geneva and Calvin went to Strassburg for three years. This was undoubtedly a great time of discouragement for Calvin.

2. In Calvin's absence, matters deteriorated sadly in Geneva. Some of its citizens came to realize that he had been right in seeking a church in which Christian law would rule. They saw, as he did, that infidelity was the root cause of their troubles. After various political conflicts, and when their freedom seemed in danger, the people of Geneva implored Calvin to return. On September 13, 1531, amid great rejoicing and enthusiastic ovation, Calvin entered Geneva a second time. In this ordeal, God worked a tragedy into a blessing, creating a situation in which the people of Geneva welcomed Calvin and his reform.

CALVIN'S SECOND REFORM (1541-1564)

1. It is easy to see the wonderful providence of God in bringing John Calvin back to Geneva. This free and independent city with its democratic institutions was at that time, of all the places in the world, the most admirably fitted to be the scene of the great reformatory labors of Calvin.

2. Upon his return to Geneva, Calvin drew up a Church Order, a set of rules for governing of the church. It was based upon the teaching of Scripture that Christ has ordained four offices in the church: pastors, teachers or professors, elders, and deacons. The cornerstone of Calvin's form of church government was the office of elder. Pastors were to preach and to exhort the people. Elders were men of unusual stamina and spiritual insight who supervised the people, and visited and assisted the pastors. Deacons were general servers. Through this type of government, based on the Bible, Calvin was able to instruct and discipline the people spiritually.

Calvin labored to set forth a theocracy that would be an example of Christian life and government, and also be a citadel of evangelical truth that would conquer the power of Rome in all other lands.

3. Calvin put great emphasis upon Christian education. He knew that the Reformation would only be effective as people knew and obeyed God's Word. He devised a catechetical system for the young which was carried all over Europe. Primary and elementary schools were set up to educate the people, so they could be better Christians. Calvin established the Academy at Geneva, the first Protestant University, where thousands of young men were trained for the ministry of the Word. From these efforts, the gospel and Presbyterianism spread all over Europe. John Knox, like thousands of others who came to sit as admiring students at Calvin’s feet, found there what he termed “the most perfect school of Christ that ever was on the earth since the days of the apostles.”

4. For the next twenty-four years, Calvin labored in Geneva to bring about an effective reform in that city of Switzerland and in all of Europe. Apart from The Institutes, Calvin also wrote many other works, including commentaries on most of the Old and New Testament books. Calvin was the greatest exegete and the prince of commentators of the Reformation. He had a thorough knowledge of Greek, Hebrew and Latin, and through the printed page he supplied the Protestants with ammunition to fight the Roman Church. One feels amazed at the extent of his work. Arminius, the originator of a theology opposed to that of Calvin's system, gave an unbiased opinion of Calvin's works, saying:

“Next to the study of the Scriptures, I exhort my pupils to pursue Calvin's commentaries, which I extol in loftier terms than Helmick himself; for I affirm that he excels beyond comparison in the interpretation of Scripture, and that his commentaries ought to be more highly valued than all that is handed down to us by the library of the fathers; so that I acknowledge him to have possessed above most others, as rather above all other men, what may be called an eminent gift of prophecy.”

5. Calvin was also responsible for putting much of the Bible into the French language so the people could read God's Word. Calvin's works had a further effect in giving form and permanence to the then unstable French language in much the same way that Luther's translation of the Bible molded the German language.

6. It was Calvin's theology and form of church government that triumphed in the Protestant Church of France, the Reformed Church of Germany, the Church of Scotland, the Reformed Church in Hungary, the Reformed Church in Holland and in Puritanism in Old and New England.

7. Calvin died in the year 1564 at the early age of 55. Beza, his close friend and successor, described his death as having come quietly in his sleep, and then added:

“Thus withdrew into heaven, at the same time with the setting sun, that noble brilliant luminary, which was the lamp of the Church. On the following day and night there was intense grief and lamentation in the whole city; for the Republic had lost its wisest citizen, the Church its faithful shepherd, and the Academy and incomparable teacher.” ...

The rest of the link is equally informative.

The funny thing about a Roman Catholic apologist trashing the "theocracy" of Calvin is that the Roman Catholic apologist not only bows down to a theocracy (in the form of the Vatican papacy) it believes that theocracy actually distributes salvation.

Pot/kettle/black.

Calvin rightly understood that neither a city, a government, a theocracy, a church nor a pope can confer salvation. That job belongs to the Holy Spirit alone by the work of Jesus Christ alone according to the will of God alone for the glory of God alone (which is our chief duty.)

219 posted on 06/28/2010 10:06:43 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"lol. Your description of Geneva is ludicrous but typical of anti-Protestant bigots who know nothing of history other than what their biased catechism teaches them."

Now you claim that the Catechism contains historical information? That is more proof that despite your claims to the contrary, you have never actually read any of it. You have just parroted the Calvinist agitprop you were poisoned with. Calvinists themselves may be humorless but some of the things you come up with sure tickle my funnybone.

"Regarding Calvin's Geneva...

Your "Quixotic" use of fonts is ineffective and meaningless since information as to the actual conditions within the hellhole that was Calvin's Geneva is abundant on the internet. Anyone with an objective interest is not going to have their opinion formed by your shrill postings, they can satisfy their curiosity with relatively few mouse clicks.

"typical of anti-Protestant bigots"

I am not anti anything. I am pro-truth. I am not a bigot, but I am proudly judgmental.

"Geneva was governed by an elected representative government..."

To the same degree that Iran, the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Cuba are governed by an elected body. LOL

Trotting out the likes of Dr. Jack L. Arnold to defend Calvin is the equivalent of Goebbels being a character witness for Hitler. You gotta try harder than that.

226 posted on 06/29/2010 8:22:57 AM PDT by Natural Law (Catholiphobia is a mental illness.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Hypocrisy defined.

EVERYTHING the Catholics have condemned Calvin and Protestantism for has been done, and usually to a far greater degree for a far longer period of time, by the RCC itself.

And yet to hear them talk, the immoralities and barbarity are just odd blips on the RCC’s purity track record.


228 posted on 06/29/2010 8:54:33 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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