Posted on 06/20/2010 5:14:46 PM PDT by Ken4TA
bflr
I forgot to mention before that the section of Daniel we are talking about is not in Hebrew ... its in Aramaic.
I realize that. And I'm sure the Hebrew scholars who translated the OT into the LXX understood and had parts that were in Aramaic. They did the tranlsation and I think that they knew better than we moderns do, so they translated the whole OT into the Greek LXX.
That's one, just a small one. See my FRMAIL to you.
Me neither :-)
And come to think of it ... you should be arguing FOR the presence of the article! Since you believe that “he will confirm” the Mosaic covenant the presence of the article would lend support to your position. If the article was missing (as you are arguing for as the preferred reading) the better rendition would be one of unfamilarity ... i.e., “confirm a covenant” ... one that was presumably not in existence as of yet.
Nope, I go by the exact wording of the LXX. Injecting articles is a modern convention that started centuries after the spread of the manuscripts we have. That is not to say I don't agree with the addition of articles, but that it is not to be found in the manuscripts. Is it true or not that Jesus said that not one "jot" or "tittle" would not be fulfilled? Those publishing what is supposed to be the words of the manuscripts in the Greek - not the translation - and saying that those are the words written are ridiculous. The addition of Greek "articles" is not faithfully transmitting the Scriptures in the Greek language. Does that make sense?
And I’m not really sure why you are preferring the LXX for your translation and interpretation of Daniel. You say you trusted the Hebrew scholars who translated from Hebrew to Greek; are you implying you DON’T trust the Hebrew scholars who translate the Hebrew into English today?
And, as you probably know, the LXX diverges quite wildly in many places from the Hebrew.
There are 2 predominant texts of the LXX, BOTH were used by the early church fathers who commented on Daniel occassionally. Using the one without articles is a preference, not a dictate. Personally, I used both while looking at the lexical data to support my partial translation. You would do well to heed the words of Augustine quoted in the preface to the KJV. He said (my terrible paraphrase from memory) "its best to use a multiple of translations because you could get the wrong sense by committing to just one."
Augustine said many things that are good (and some far out). Your terrible paraphrase of him is fine: and I follow that all the time. My library has 29 versions of the Bible, and while I don't pull everyone out all the time to check how they translate or interpret the manuscripts, I seldom don't check a few when writing articles. That is a good practice that more should follow - congratulation are due to you!
There are 2 predominant texts of the LXX, BOTH were used by the early church fathers who commented on Daniel occassionally. Using the one without articles is a preference, not a dictate. Personally, I used both while looking at the lexical data to support my partial translation.
Okay, not bad. I do similarly. I have access to quite a few texts of the Old and New Testament books. The list of varients I have on the manuscripts are way to large to look at each and every one all the time. So, I have to pick and choose, maybe missing one that someone else may comment on. O'well, what will be wil be, as the saying goes. If you ever have the chance, visit the library in London, England: it has the largest collection of manuscripts that I've ever seen - although the Vatican library claims much more.
I don't read Hebrew is why I go to the LXX. It's not a matter of trusting modern Hebrew scholars, it's a matter of the OLD Hebrew scholars who did the original translation of the Hebrew (and Aramaic) into the Greek language, and whose translation was quoted by Jesus and His Apostles: also, it's the version that was in use in the 1st century and a few centuries after. Anything wrong with doing that?
And, as you probably know, the LXX diverges quite wildly in many places from the Hebrew.
I'm aware of that. However, there was no controversey from Hebrews of the 1st century over any divergences until the argument about whether to use the LXX or the Masoretic text. However the Masoretic has many varients when compared to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and that is an even bigger argument among scholars today. While the precise meaning of some texts of the NT are sometimes uncertain, that is more often the case with the Hebrew and Aramaic texts. Thus my use of the Greek LXX.
Many in the Catholic and in Reformed theology teach many outstanding doctrines of the Church over the past 2 millenia, but their eschatology was weak.
Eschatology, building upon the other doctrines of Scripture, is reinforced by His Word and Prophecy of things yet to come.
The key I have found in studies through faith in Him, builds upon other doctrines, such as the doctrine of the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union, Kenosis, the Shekinah Glory, the Tabernacle, and His Indwelling of the believer.
This key focuses, not upon what we define His temple to be, nor what we provide Him, rather what He decides in His Sovereignty to be His temple, His locative dwelling place.
Consider for a moment what the Temple in Jerusalem was at the Incarnation. It was His dwelling place. It was manifest by the Shekinah Glory of His presence in the Holy of Holies.
At the Cross, when all of mankinds sins, past, present, and future were imputed upon our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, and He was judged for those sins, Jesus Christ redeemed our sins, by his atoning work for our judgment, propitiating the righteous judgment of God the Father, providing for so great a salvation, which in his faith and personal love for God the Father and His Plan for all humanity, and the impersonal love of Christ for all mankind, that after that Cross bearing the Judgment of those sins, He established the foundation upon which every believer, by the same faith in Him, through Christ, is now able to be blessed by God the Father with the regeneration of our human spirit, by His grace, for salvation through Him.
It is very true, that this judgment for sin is now finished.
Additionally, upon the death of our Lord Christ Jesus, the Temple veil was rent in two, from top to bottom.
It also should be noted that even when believers of high stature, sought to build a Temple for God, their volition to build the Temple, was not the criterion God sought for the production of a location where He would dwell.
He was the arbiter of His dwelling place. He would provide for His dwelling place. Where He dwelt was by His volition, not abiding by the sacrifice of others, because a sacrifice was not what He sought, rather He sought the righteous just fellowship of His believers and provided a dwelling place so that He was dwelling amongst those whom He chose.
The same happens today.
The believer today, post-Pentecost, upon saving faith is given a regenerated human spirit, is born again in the human spirit, and still has a body and soul scarred from the old man influencing his thinking.
While we remain in fellowship with Him, through faith in Him, we are living as the new man, not the old sin nature which still influences and tempts us.
We are commanded to remain in fellowship with Him.
We are never commanded to be indwelt by Him, because He decides where He will dwell.
Today, blessing us with the favor of the request of our Lord and Savior, He, God the Holy Spirit indwells every believer through faith in Christ. Even when we fall out of fellowship, He remains faithful and the indwelling remains, not by our volition, by purely by His volition and grace.
God was not indwelling the Temple at the time of the Roman invasion of 70AD, rather the Temple by His choosing at that time and since, is in each and every believer, whom He indwells.
This is not imaginary, nor philosophy, but a report of His very real presence in every believer, manifest in our remaining in fellowship in Him and His working in us, continuing to sanctify His believers by His Plan for each and every one of us.
We still need teaching to continue to grow in Him, through faith in Christ, but this will not be the case in the Millenium, when we will not need to teach one another.
The Great Tribulation is an event triggered by Israel’s decision to enter into a covenant with another for their security, rather than remaining faithful to God through what He has provided.
The Church, will experience a Great Apostasy.
The Abomination that makes desolate, is also marked by events causing the sacrifice to not have effect.
There is strong warning against taking the mark of the beast.
When these things occur, there will be a time when believers are unable to return into fellowship with God, through simple repentance and confession. Please note that several things always remain true with our God. He never has anything to do with something that is good for nothingness. Everything He does bears fruit. He has redeemed us from the slave market of sin and we are His, no matter what we do.
There is just a traumatic turning of events in the last week as there was at the Cross. Our Lord remains victorious, but there will be many whom He loves who will suffer from lack of faith.
The world is changing, but it isn’t getting better, except through faith in Him, and generally those remaining in faith frequently do not bare the worldly fruits of their spiritual faith in Him, but many rewards await at the bema seat.
Even after the Second Coming, there still are many physical and mental issues which require further sanctification as a result of original sin. That Millennial Reign has not yet begun. In the interim, we are proof, that only with His Reign, will all of humanity and the angelic conflict ever succeed in living by His Plan, and any and all alternatives, ultimately lead to evil and failure.
A final note, even if the physical building called the temple by others was destroyed, His Word and His Prophecy regards the true Temple, the place determined by Him and Him alone as to where He would reside. The abomination of 70 AD was not an abomination of where He was dwelling, because that time was in the Church Age, and His Dwelling place was in the spirit of His believers at that time as it is today. His Prophecy will come true, and literally where He has said it will occur. There is no mystery in it, other than associating with the mystery Church Age, not known prior to Pentecost and the Ascension.
By simply studying His Word, He lets us understand clearly exactly what is occurring in His Plan, at least with sufficiency for us to perform His Will by His Plan and we need no other.
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