Posted on 06/13/2010 6:28:26 PM PDT by Colofornian
Good advice, as always.
“But for others there is an uneasiness, nothing bad just a sense that God might be wanting more from them”
Thank you for your thoughtful post. (Finally!) I wanted to comment on your comment (above). That’s what happened to me when I was with Youth With A Mission (YWAM). Yes, I was a Christian missionary with YWAM for about 5 yrs. I became disillusioned and felt something was amiss, something was missing. That “something” was the authority which I found in the LDS Church.
Thanks again. I appreciate your thoughtful approach. I needed that.
That “something” was the authority which I found in the LDS Church.
- - - -
Sandy, there is NO authority in the LDS church.
Smith and cowdrey were not baptized and therefore could not be properly ‘ordained’ to baptize. it is a circular argument.
furthermore, if the 3 Nephites and John are still alive (as the LDS teach), then the ‘priesthood’ never left the earth, thus NO apostasy.
Finally, Christ is our only HIGH PRIEST (Hebrews 5), and the only one who holds the priesthood ‘after the manner of Melcheizedek’ and it is an insult to claim that the LDS have high priests and offer a priesthood that only Christ had.
You apparently missed the point when you were with YWAM, that ALL believers hold the priesthood and that authority comes only from Christ.
Why do you persist in believing the lies the LDS feed you?!?!?
Still waiting for answers to my questions, Sandy.
Need me to repost them?
Once again I can hardly get past the above quote...it literally jolts ones very soul....and in a terrible way. Surely this breeds confusion to those who in the Mormon church say they love Christ, as it opposes all in us that He bore there in our place.
That is where we belonged....not Him....that is the judgement we deserved...not Him....that is the place He paid the price for our life that we my live and escape the wrath of God we full heartedly deserved....He didn't.
Without Christ willingly facing our punishment before a Holy and righteous God there would be no resurrection....no future with Him....no hope ...rather an eternity fully seperated from all that is and about God....and that in torment....and alone.
It has been proven....darkness is the abscence of light......on that Cross...that very day for three hours darkness covered the whole earth. What should that tell you. Thank God He Himself came and took our place on that cross.....to satsify His requirements which we could not and never would meet. And then three days later He arose...the victor over death...so that we might live.
So the Cross brought us life and that everlasting...Joseph Smiths words distract and deceive from these thruths.
Apparently we didn’t write our posts in a “thoughtful” enough manner to warrant a response.
Or we are not seen as potential convert material.
Did that “authority” you sought also include polygamy which you have so staunchly defended over the years against those of us who have maintained Joey Smith never got it from the God of the Bible and that it is just serial adultery and sin ???
What exactly was the “authority” that you found in the mormon religionb that you feel is missing from the Christian Bible ???
I’ll make the coffee...
No thats not it
What you are looking at is “suckin up”
Ok...What’s a golden contact? Maybe someone being recruited?
Smith and cowdrey were not baptized and therefore could not be properly ‘ordained’ to baptize. it is a circular argument
_______________________________________
actually how they did it is Cowdery “baptised” Joey Smith and then Joey Smith turned around and “baptised” Oliver Cowdrey
Oh noezs
Oh gosh
That means...
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Joey Smith didnt get his “authority frum the mormon jesus”
He just got wet and went swimming with his dumb pal Oliver who later “apostased”
And got his “authority” from a bank robber and anti-mormon who didnt like polygamy...
NOBODY TOLD THE MORMON GOD.....
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH
In 1836 the Kirkland Safety Society Bank was formed. Orson Hyde was sent to the legislature to try to secure a charter and Oliver Cowdery was sent to secure printing plates for the bank. The charter was denied, so the bank reorganized as an anti-bank or quasi banking organization in 1837. Joseph Smith used boxes full of rocks with a layer of coins on top to show the bank assets in order to get people to deposit money. In reality most of the assets of the Mormon Church and the members was in land.
At that time there was a great deal of land speculation in Ohio, Michigan and Missouri. This drove the land prices from around $7.00 per acre to around $44.00 per acre. Joseph Smith used the money that the bank did have to speculate further. By 1839 the price of land fell to the $17.00-$18.00 per acre. The bank and the Church had invested $60,000 in land and no longer had funds to cover its obligations. Oliver Cowdery was the Vice President of the anti-bank and signed most of the bank notes. Joseph Smith made himself cashier rather than an officer.
At the same time, Joseph Smith started down the road to polygamy. Oliver did not support polygamy.
Late in 1837 Joseph Smith wrote the following in the newspaper:
I am disposed to say a word relative to the bills of the Kirtland Safety Society Bank. I hereby warn them to beware of speculators, renegades and gamblers, who are duping the unsuspecting and the unwary, by palming upon them, those bills, which are of no worth, here. I discountenance and disapprove of any and all such practices. I know them to be detrimental to the best interests of society, as well as to the principles of religion
Joseph Smith also gave the following testimony:
He claimed that a nonmember of the Church by the name of Sapham had told him in Kirtland that a warrant had been issued against Oliver “for being engaged in making a purchase of bogus money and dies to make the counterfeit money with.” According to the Prophet, he and Sidney Rigdon went to visit Oliver concerning the matter and told him that if he were guilty, he had better leave town; but if he was innocent, he should stand trial and thus be acquitted. “That night or next,” the Prophet said, Oliver “left the country” (A History of the Latter-day Saints in Northern Missouri From 1836 to 1839, p.146).
Sidney Rigdon testified:
After Oliver Cowdery had been taken by a State warrant for stealing, and the stolen property found ... in which nefarious transaction John Whitmer had also participated. Oliver Cowdery stole the property, conveyed it to John Whitmer ... Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Lyman E. Johnson, united with a gang of counterfeiters, thieves, liars, and blacklegs of the deepest dye, to deceive, cheat, and defraud the saints out of their property....
During the full career of Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer’s bogus money business, it got abroad into the world that they were engaged in it.... We have evidence of a very strong character that you are at this very time engaged with a gang of counterfeiters, coiners, and blacklegs,... we will put you from the county of Caldwell: so help us God. Sidney Rigdon,1838 quotation published in: US Senate Document 189
Oliver Cowdery purchased the plates and signed most of the notes from the Kirkland anti-bank when there was no acceptable collateral to back up the notes. This was considered to be counterfeiting. Joseph Smith directed him to sign notes, then accused him of counterfeiting when there was a break.
In the excommunication hearing point 8 was his involvement in “bogus business” as described in a common report. The common report was the newspaper article written by Joseph Smith Jr. The testimony against Oliver Cowdrey on the subject was provided by Joseph Smith and circumstantial evidence.
Another point in the excommunication was that Oliver had sold a piece of his own land without the approval of Joseph Smith.
Apparently there was an additional problems between Joseph Smith and Oliver. In his reply to the Church concerning his excommunication, he complained about the theocratic rule that Joseph Smith had instituted. Oliver Cowdery responded to the excommunication in part by saying:
The very principle of which I conceive to be couched in an attempt to set up a kind of petty government, controlled and dictated by ecclesiastical influence, in the midst of this national and state government. You will, no doubt, say this is not correct; but the bare notice of these charges, over which you assume the right to decide, is, in my opinion, a direct attempt to make the secular power subservient to Church direction - to the correctness of which I cannot in conscience subscribe - I believe the principle never did fail to produce anarchy and confusion.
This attempt to control me in my temporal interests, I conceive to be a disposition to take from me a portion of my Constitutional privileges and inherent right - I only, respectfully, ask leave, therefore, to withdraw from a society assuming they have such right.
Here is a summary of charges against Oliver Cowdery and his response to the Mormon Church.
http://lds-mormon.com/oliver.shtml
Here is a complete transcript of the excommunication proceedings and responses to his letter:
http://www.saintswithouthalos.com/m/3...
On January 12, 1838, faced with a warrant for his arrest on a charge of illegal banking, Smith and Rigdon fled to Clay County, Missouri just ahead of an armed group out to capture and hold him for trial.
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_olivercowdrey.html
Yes, definitely.
Plus it is anyone who shows any outward signs of any interest whatsoever in the LDS Church,
....AND it is also conservatives like those on FreeRepublic who aren't well grounded in the Bible. Mormonism sees these types as potential converts to the "oh so good, and wonderfully socially conservative" (But not so often fiscally conservative) LDS organization. That is why there was such a concerted push on FreeRepublic for Mormons to proselytize here. We "Inman" have been an effective inoculation to their blatant missonary efforts among political conservatives.
I think we should simmer down and let caww draw SD out. I think she’s on to something here.
Hello T. .......It is important for someone to understand and be able to respond to that question as it is a fundamental principle of the Christian faith, without know ing that answer the cross then becomes ineffective for that indiduals life.
“It is appointed for man once to die, and then the judgement”.. ....Every man has an eternal destiny whether they believe it or not...
I agree. I know exactly what would have happened to me if Jesus had not born my sins when He died on the cross. God is a just God and MUST punish my sin, and the punishment is death. I would have been cast into hell for eternity except Jesus took my punishment for me.
That was my eternal destiny the very first time I committed the very “smallest” sin. and there was not one single thing I could do to save myself.
Oh Missionary work with Youth With A Mission..and for 5 yrs no less. What were you disillusioned with while you were there? And yes there can be that uneasiness as you say you experienced. Who are these folks affiliated with? I think I’ve heard but I can’t off hand place them.
What age groups did you work with? I give you credit for working with kids.... my patience is not the best with kids since my kids got on their own. However I use to work with my church, at that time, teaching Sunday school etc.
Truth? Links, pictures, and copy & paste? Keep up the good work genius.
check your e-mail when you can get it.
replied. :)
Yep...and then he tossed our sins into the deepest sea and put a huge sign up that reads...”NO FISHING”...sometimes we find ourselves fishing in the past....the sign idea works good for me.
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