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To: RnMomof7; Mad Dawg
Where does Paul state that ??

Actually...a few places:

The first and most obvious (i.e., verbatim) is Romans 15:16

to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

You will remember the third question that I asked you in post #22: Perhaps you could explain what your understanding of the role of the priest is?

It wasn't a rhetorical question. There is an answer to that. If you look at Heb 5:1, you will find the answer (to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins)

If we take a look, functionally, we see a whole lot that opens up for us:

  • Phil 2:17 Even if I am to be poured as a libation upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.
  • Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
  • 1 Pet 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

See, we are all called to offer our faith, our bodies, our selves as sacrifices as priests. As St. Peter said, you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood (1 Pet 2:9). What is a priest? One who offers gifts and sacrifices (Heb 5:1).

But what makes this so? What makes us priests? The mere fact that Christ is in us! (Col 1:27).

The Royal Priesthood was something that was foreshadowed in the Old Testament covenant with the House of Israel. God told Moses, and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation (Ex 19.6). He was not referring only to the House of Levi, but to all of Israel. And this was confirmed in the Apocalypse of St. John: and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father (Rev 1.6). And, for that matter, it is stated also during the thousand year reign: Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years. (Rev 20.6)

Of course, you have the Royal priesthood versus the ministerial priesthood. That, too, was foreshadowed in the Old Testament. You recall the quote from Exodus above? All of Israel were called to be a royal priesthood, yet only a small subset of them were called for service in the Temple. Same thing here.

But, as you pointed out in your post #2, He is offering continual sacrifices for us in heaven. This is almost true and is alluded to in Rev 5:6. He was sacrificed Once for all and entered into the sanctuary once to offer that sacrifice of Himself. He remains in that sanctuary (Rev 5.6). And it is that which is offered by Christ at each Mass.


Mad Dawg, you are far more the scholar than I. Do I pretty well have a handle on the Scriptures above?

99 posted on 06/14/2010 5:56:38 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
Your request touches me, and I wish I deserved the confidence.

I wouldn't presume to comment authoritatively on the particular scriptures, not while I have this headache. But I checked the Rom 15:16 (with which I was not familiar) and "priestly service" sure seems right to me, with the "iero" stem as part of the word.

I do very much like your general theme, which I will mangle thus: We are all priests and the church has an order of priests which most definitely is NOT a continuation or a ver. 2.1b of the OT priesthood.

And we are, and the Church does have, priests because of the mystical (and, I would keep insisting, proleptically apprehended eschatological) union with Christ in the Spirit, the union which makes the Church His body.

In and because of that objective Spiritual union, by God's grace, which is always more than we could imagine or pray for, we may make feeble, half-hearted, and self-conscious offerings of our "works and prayers, joys and sufferings" daily and take confidence that these little things of ours are swept along in the great torrent which is the Passion of Christ.

And as Christ and His Passion, Death, and Resurrection (and all the rest) somehow stand as the forming standard for our offerings, the Eucharist is so united to Him and His work that it is rightly called the source and summit of our faith.

And so the sacred presbyterate, with the college of Bishops and that of deacons, have a creating (in an intermediate way) and a "norming" relationship with the priesthood of all believers. We all offer Christ and we all are that which we offer. The whole Church, the laity in a special way, make that offering mystically. In addition, the presbyterate makes it sacramentally.

How's that?

100 posted on 06/14/2010 6:45:58 PM PDT by Mad Dawg ("Be kind to everyone you meet, for every person is fightinga great battle" -- St. Ephraim)
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To: markomalley

You wrote “The first and most obvious (i.e., verbatim) is Romans 15:16”

to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.”

I found that only about 1/2 of the bible translations use the word priest in that verse

Even your own Douy Rheims does not use it

Douay-Rheims Bible
That I should be the minister of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles
sanctifying the gospel of God, that the oblation of the Gentiles may be made acceptable and sanctified in the Holy Ghost.

So I suspect we are looking at different early sources..
But no matter the sourse the verse is clear that this is not about the “eucharist” .

.BUT the preaching of the GOSPEL in a faithful manner.. no mass or consecration noted here . Note he did not use the word “priest” as a NOUN he was not calling himself a priest but used it as an adjective to describe his service..

No where in the NT is the last Supper called a sacrifice my friend.
We are told to offer OURSELVES as a living sacrifice ..

That is very different than calling communion a sacrifice..

I offer my self as a sacrifice , I do not need a priest to offer me on his altar ..

That is why Peter noted that the saved are ALL priests because we offer ourselves and our mediator is Christ

Once more there is no role of priest listed for the New Church because the priesthood was a type of Christ fulfilled at the cross where He offered the FINAL sacrifice for sin and fulfilled the type


109 posted on 06/15/2010 10:26:01 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: markomalley
The first and most obvious (i.e., verbatim) is Romans 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

So now a priest is a minister as well...You guys certainly are good at distorting the scriptures to justify your religion...

* Phil 2:17 Even if I am to be poured as a libation upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.

Php 2:17 Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.

* Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

* 1 Pet 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

All you have to do is see the word sacrifice and automatically it proves Jesus DID have a priesthood in the church...

And the scriptural distortions are unbelievable...

Apparently you haven't noticed that these are spiritual sacrifices, not physical...Any you haven't noticed the sacrifices are performed by ALL, not just 'ministers'...

But then don't let a little scripture ruin your warped theology...

120 posted on 06/15/2010 12:39:46 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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