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To: GiovannaNicoletta; RJR_fan; Mark was here
I understand the position of the post-millennialist, and as a "realized millennialist" I recognize that I can have some interpretational issues that could just as easily have me join their camp - at least the partial preterist division. Ten years ago, I was sanctified out of Dispensationalism, and on a daily basis I find yet more and more reasons to write it off as the apostasy it is.

I know that libraries of books have been written on the subject, and some time on the internet will cover most of the arguments. Speaking of libraries of books, I mostly read 15th through 19th century theological works and I find it interesting, yet not surprising, that the popularity of certain millennial views vary along-side contemporary culture. For example, during the Great Awakening, the great theologians were predominately post-millennial since empirically it appeared to be the trend. The Church at large (worldwide), for the past few thousand years has been primarily amillennial with certain notable groups holding to what is now called "Classical Premillennialism" The Darby/Scofield variety of Premillennialism, appears to be a rather young creature, an outgrowth of the American Religion (Big-Box Churchianity) and slick marketing campaigns designed for wealthy western culture enamored with our own narcissism and a general attitude of treating our LORD as our Cosmic Concierge.

Before I answer a few of "GiovannaNicoletta's" open questions to "Mark was here", I have a few of my own.

When was the Gospel preached to all the nations?
Romans 10:18 - But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world."
Colossians 1:5-6 - "..in the word of the truth of the gospel which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing fruit..."
Colossians 1:23 - "if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister."

Who was the Antichrist?
Who needs an Antichrist? The only mention of such a character is in 1 John, and that person is characterized as one who is a deceiver and denies that Jesus is the Christ and denies the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:18-23). In fact, it seems to me that Dispensationlism is trying to make anti-christs by urging the Jews to deny Jesus Christ by building yet another temple in which they can blaspheme our LORD's finished work on the cross by sacrificing critters rather than rely on the Blood of our Savior. Seriously. Why do some Christians want to make a new red heffer, raise money to build another temple, and rebuild the furniture sans the Ark and the contents therein? Isn't that like driving the getaway car to a bank robbery or holding the flashlight while another cracks the safe? Do you sincerely think God will bless that?

Why did we have the rebirth if Israel in 1948 if all of the prophecies that pointed to the literal return of Christ already happened?
There is a secular nation called Israel, two-thirds who are ethnic Jews, who occupy a fragment of the Middle East, So what? In Joshua 21:43, the promise the LORD had sworn to Abraham concerning the Land of Israel was fulfilled. There is no need for a future Israel, that promise was already kept thousands of years ago. If there is a physical nation of Israel or not fulfills no specific orthodox Biblical prophecy. Besides, isn't it more than a generation of time since 1948? Wasn't this the reason why one of the modern day Prophets declared the LORD's return in 1988? There is no Temple Mount, unless our LORD lied in Mark 13:2, Matthew 24:2 or Luke 21:6. The Masjid Qubbat As-Sakhrah (Dome of the Rock) sits on what was formerly the plaza of Fort Antonia where the Roman garrison stayed. The actual temple was immediately to its south, and is no more, because, as our LORD clearly stated, "not one stone will be left upon another". When our LORD makes statements like that, they are meant to be kept, hence no stone will be left upon another to this day and until the End of the Age. I submit that Islam is here to make sure that promise stands.

Where is the record written anywhere that China had a 200 million man army in 70AD?
Where in all of Scripture does it even make reference to China, let alone a 200 million man standing army? This is part of the problem in your questions, all of these questions are based on the fallacy of the Dispensational hermeneutic that all things must convey some hybrid of literalism and selective imagery randomly grabbed from unrelated places in Scripture and universally projected to be in our future. For example, Hal Lindsey taking liberties in calling the clearly symbolic locusts of Rev 9:3 and transforming them into actual US made Apache Helicopters. Are you going to then ask, "Where did the Apache Helicopters with Hellfire missles that took down the Jerusalem Temple in 70AD come from?" Similarly, Hal Lindsey also made up the 200 million Chinese Army by taking some Scripture from Rev 9:15-16 and gratuitously merging it with Rev 16:12. It is a fraud, and the rank and file Dispensationalists are gullible consumers of this dreck.
Let's examine this 200 Million Man March on Jerusalem. That is one-fifth of China's population. China's current military according to wikipedia is presently 2.3 million active, 1.2 reserve. That is a tiny fraction of 200 million. I will grant that those available for military service (age 16-49) is 654 million, three times more than Hal Lindesy says is needed. The present military budget is $80B, or 1.5%% of China's GDP. What do you suppose it would be to handle 100 times that? Remember, the 200 Million is the number who descend upon Jerusalem, that does not include all of those in the supply lines, traingin, communications, logistics, intelligence, command, etc.. Then there is the issue of supply and transport. The Persian Gulf War of 1990-91 included the transport of 500,000 men and their equipment to the region and it took the US with all of its transportation capabilities six months to execute that move. Now amp that up by 400 times for an emerging industrial nation who still buys its navy from the Russians. Then consider the route through or around the Himalayas. The Lindesy Prophecy says that this army will be crossing the Euphrates river by land. Extrapolating the US experience in getting a military fielded in the Middle east, we are talking about 200 years to pull this off. Exactly how is the Chinese budget going to pull that off? Do you have any idea how much fuel and food that is required? And while 200,000,000 men are marching, who is working the fields and factories? Where do the officers come from? How do you conscript, train, assign, house, clothe, feed, march, coordinate these sort of numbers? Furthermore, in anyone's wildest imagination, what sort of military operation has as its only solution decimating its industry to field this kind of military? Its insanity like this that ought to tell the Dispensationalist that maybe this 150 year experiment in anti-orthodox eschatology might be wrong.

GiovannaNicoletta, I simply ask that you take a look at what many generations of devout Christians believed before this largely American fanaticism of Dispensational Premillennialism was invented. There are numerous serious doctrinal problems with Dispensationalism: the most obvious, the dividing of the People of God, the reinstitutionalizing of temple sacrifice, narcissism over humility before God, the reckless profaning of Scripture to sensationalize and sell books and Prophecy Conferences, etc. Its not an easy road to go down. Dispensationalism is sexy because it has violence, and freaks of nature, intrigue and mystery. Fortunately, God didn't isn't trying to compete with Vince Flynn and Brad Thor. Revelation is, as the letter begins, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, not the Antichrist and a continous pattern of cryptic catastrophes. It is about "things which must shortly take place...for the time is near" not thousands and thousands of years later. It was written to the seven churches so that they should "keep those things that are written in it" not for a world full of God hating reprobates who are wondering why planes are crashing to the ground.

85 posted on 06/13/2010 2:34:47 PM PDT by The Theophilus
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To: The Theophilus
Ten years ago, I was sanctified out of Dispensationalism, and on a daily basis I find yet more and more reasons to write it off as the apostasy it is.

It seems as though the traffic is mainly going one way -- away from this tragic error that turns Christians into cheerleaders for Satan's team, and towards a saner, happier, perspective on time. I began seeing daylight in 1980. My life, marriage, family, and education were all transformed as I was emboldened to expect better things from God than universal impotence and global failure.

We have God's Spirit within us, Jesus at the Father's right hand, His Word to guide us, and tailor-made assignments to complete (Eph. 2:10). As we obey our God, we transform our world, and demonstrate to the universe of angels and men that "Jesus is LORD" -- and Lord is not a synonym for "guru." He is so much more than a "personal spiritual adviser," who regulates and amplifies our inner lives. He reigns in the world around us, and makes His Kingdom known as we obey Him. The rock "not cut with hands" is growing to a mighty mountain and filling the world.

In a way, the passion folks pour into their apocalyptic pontifications leaves me dismayed. After all this time, have we learned so little? Are we still so gullible, so easily diverted from our God-given tasks by hucksters and shamans with retreaded books?

86 posted on 06/13/2010 3:04:00 PM PDT by RJR_fan (Christians need to reclaim and excel in the genre of science fiction.)
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