Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Authority of the Church, Chapter II: That the Church is an infallible guide for our faith.
The Authority of the Church ^ | 16th century A.D. | St. Francis de Sales

Posted on 06/08/2010 3:39:18 PM PDT by Pyro7480

CHAPTER II. THAT THE CHURCH IS AN INFALLIBLE GUIDE FOR OUR FAITH.
THAT THE TRUE CHURCH IS VISIBLE. DEFINITION OF THE CHURCH.

Now is it not reasonable that no private individual should attribute to himself this infallible judgment on the interpretation or explanation of the Holy Word? -otherwise, where should we be? Who would be willing to submit to the yoke of a private individual? Why of one rather than of another? Let him talk as much as he will of analogy, of enthusiasm, of the Lord, of the Spirit,-all this shall never so bind my understanding as that, if I must sail at hazard, I will not jump into the vessel of my own judgment, rather than that of another, let him talk Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Tartar, Moorish, and whatever you like. If we are to run the risk of erring, who would not choose to run it rather by following his own fancy, than by slavishly following that of Calvin or Luther? Everybody shall give liberty to his wits to run promiscuously about amongst opinions the most diverse possible; and, indeed, he will perhaps light on truth as soon as another will. But it is impious to believe that Our Lord has not left us some supreme judge on earth to whom we can address ourselves in our difficulties, and who is so infallible in his judgments that we cannot err.

I maintain that this judge is no other than the Church Catholic, which can in no way err in the interpretations and conclusions she makes with regard to the Holy Scripture, nor in the decisions she gives concerning the difficulties which are found therein. For who has ever heard this doubted of?

All that our adversaries can say is that this infallibility is only true of the invisible Church. But they arrive at this their opinion of the invisibility of the Church by two roads; for some say it is invisible because it consists only of persons elect and predestinate: the others attribute this invisibility to the rareness and scattering of the believers and faithful. Of these the first consider the Church to be invisible at all times, the others say that this invisibility has lasted about a thousand years, more or less; that is, from S. Gregory to Luther, during which time the papal authority was peaceably established among Christians for they say that during this time there were some true Christians in secret, who did not manifest their intentions, and were satisfied with thus serving God in concealment. This theology is imagination and guesswork; so that others have preferred to say, that during those thousand years the Church was neither visible nor invisible, but altogether effaced and suffocated by impiety and idolatry. Permit me, I beseech you, to say the truth freely; all these words are the incoherencies of fever, they are but dreams had while awake, and not worth the dream Nabuchodonosor had while asleep. And they are entirely contrary to it if we believe Daniel's interpretation (Dan. ii); for Nabuchodonosor saw a stone cut out of a mountain without hands which went rolling till it overthrew the great statue, and so increased that having become a mountain it filled the whole earth: this Daniel understood of the Kingdom of Our Lord, which shall last for ever. If it be as a mountain, and a mountain so large as to fill the whole earth, how shall it be invisible or secret? And if it last for ever, how shall it have failed a thousand years? And it is certainly of the Kingdom of the Church militant that this passage is to be understood; for that of the triumphant will fill heaven, not earth only, and will not arise during the time of the other Kingdoms, as Daniel's interpretation says, but after the consummation of the world. Add to this that to be cut from the mountain without hands, belongs to the temporal generation of Our Lord, according to which he has been conceived in the womb of the Virgin, and engendered of her own substance without work of man, by the sole benediction of the Holy Ghost. Either then Daniel has badly prophesied, or the adversaries of the Catholic Church have done so when they have said the Church was invisible, hidden and destroyed. In God's name have patience; we will go in order and briefly, while showing the vanity of those opinions. But we must, before all things, say what the Church is.

Church comes from the Greek word meaning to call. Church then signifies an assembly, or company of persons called. Synagogue means a flock, to speak properly. The assembly of the Jews was called Synagogue, that of Christians is called Church: because the Jews were as a flock of animals, assembled and herded by fear; Christians are brought together by the Word of God, called together in the union of charity, by the preaching of the Apostles and their successors. Wherefore S. Augustine has said (In Ps. LXXXI) that the Church is named from convocation, the synagogue from flock, because to be convoked belongs more to men, to be driven together refers rather to cattle. Now it is with good reason that we call the Christian people the Church, or convocation, because the first benefit God does to a man whom he is about to receive into grace is to call him to the Church. Those whom he predestinated them he also called, said S. Paul to the Roman (viii.30); - that is the first effect of his predestination: and to the Colossians (iii. 15): Let the peace of Christ rejoice in your hearts, wherein also you are called in one body. To be called in one body is to be called in the Church, and in those comparisons which Our Lord makes, in S. Matthew (xx. xxii.), of the vineyard and the banquet to the Church, the workmen in the vineyard and the guests at the banquet, he names the called and invited ones: Many, says he, are called, but few are chosen. The Athenians called the assemblage of the citizens the church, an assemblage of strangers was called by another name-diaklesis. Whence the word Church belongs properly to Christians, who are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens of the saints and domestics of God (Eph. ii. 19) You see whence is taken the word Church, and here is its definition:(from Ephes. v. 27; John xi. 52; S. Cyprian de unit Eccl.; Ephes. iv. 4; Matt. xvi.; Heb. vii. 11; Ephes. iv. 11, 12). The Church is a holy university or general company of men united and collected together in the profession of one same Christian faith; in the participation of the same Sacraments and Sacrifice; and in obedience to one same Vicar and Lieutenant-general on earth of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and successor of S. Peter; under the charge of lawful Bishops.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History
KEYWORDS: calvinist; catholic; francis; francisdesales
After being repeatedly rebuffed in his attempts to re-evangelize Calvinist Protestants who would not listen to Catholic preaching for fear of reprisals, St. Francis turned to writing leaflets and inserting them into copies of his sermons, which he then posted on walls, slipped under doors and handing to whomever he could. Four years later, almost 72,000 had returned to the ancient Catholic Faith! These tracts have been compiled into a book and given the title The Catholic Controversy. The works are still as fresh and powerful today as they were then, and give some of the most compelling arguments against Protestantism that have ever been written, presenting a defense of the Catholic Faith that in some respects has never been equalled.
1 posted on 06/08/2010 3:39:19 PM PDT by Pyro7480
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; american colleen; Desdemona; StAthanasiustheGreat; ..

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 06/08/2010 3:40:48 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480

I hope you spend more time reaching muslims that worrying about your Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ.


3 posted on 06/08/2010 3:42:47 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Nothing to see here. Move along.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480; netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; ...

Thank you!


4 posted on 06/08/2010 3:43:16 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TheThirdRuffian
On that note, I cannot recommend this book more: The Life And Religion of Mohammed : The Prophet of Arabia
5 posted on 06/08/2010 4:19:30 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480

bmfl


6 posted on 06/08/2010 4:34:22 PM PDT by raygunfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480
But it is impious to believe that Our Lord has not left us some supreme judge on earth to whom we can address ourselves in our difficulties, and who is so infallible in his judgments that we cannot err.

I maintain that this judge is no other than the Church Catholic, which can in no way err in the interpretations and conclusions she makes with regard to the Holy Scripture, nor in the decisions she gives concerning the difficulties which are found therein. For who has ever heard this doubted of?

Another sales pitch by the false religion...

The judge is the scriptures...Not any fallible, man made religion...

By rejecting the God breathed scriptures, you guys never learned that a church, yours included, is not the cause of Christianity...The 'church' is the result of Christianity...Folks are added to the church AFTER they are saved...

7 posted on 06/08/2010 4:45:29 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

St. Francis preached to you from the Scriptures, and yet, you return him the favor with gall and spite.


8 posted on 06/08/2010 4:56:28 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

72,000 returned to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church due to his sound preaching.


9 posted on 06/08/2010 4:57:22 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480

See, nothing new under the sun. Truth be told, St. Francis de Sales is one of the easier writers to understand. And he called the whole thing what it really is - vanity. Refreshing.


10 posted on 06/08/2010 5:12:02 PM PDT by Desdemona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480

the Church Catholic, which can in no way err in the interpretations and conclusions she makes with regard to the Holy Scripture and the Pope infallable in interpretations...each and every teaching of the Catholic Church is “let him be anathema” if any should find Bible differences on doctrine that the Catholic Church teaches...is this a “GRACE” approach to dealing with others??? What grace does the Catholic Church demonstrate before Almighty God and Jesus Christ by anathemizing everyone that has just a single and slight different understanding than this VRS. Where is grace and understanding from such a church?

For the Apostle Paul correctly writes in Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. So is the Catholic Church deny that Paul received directly from God Almighty...and the scriptures are completed nearly 2000 years now...and anyone receiving new words of God today since the Bible has been completed says that we whom study the Bible, and it completed, are to be anathemized. Now then, if Paul received the perfect Word of God DIRECTLY from God Almighty, who is infallable, except God ONLY, no man, no woman, is greater than God Almighty. And I certainly will receive my crown of life from God Almighty and my Lord Jesus Christ, not from man, not from the Catholic Church, but directly from God the Father and Jesus Christ, my soul is In Christ and the full Godhead indwells my soul (as demonstrated by several Pauline NT verses); which Paul writes in Ephesians 1:13 “ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise”. And Ephesians 1:5 “[Christ] Having predestinated us [called believers by God] unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will” and in 1 Corinthians 12:27 “Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular”. My CALLING from God is assured, notice in 1 Corinthians 1:26 “For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called”.

The calling of God is a calling of individual men and women, not a calling of a building nor an oranization nor a collection of people.

The Body of Christ: I am IN the Body of Christ, wrought entirely by the hand of God alone, not of any man, nor of any service of man, but God alone and Christ Jesus and Him crucified. For “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me [Galatians 2:20].

Now if I am anathema by the Catholic Church - praise God Almighty for I am saved by Him alone and assured salvation. Heaven is not filled by organizations of men and women, for all who are in heaven are not distinguished by any organization, nor of man, nor of woman: all are indistinguishable from each other, for all are In Christ, the Body of Christ.

God Almighty’s warning:

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

P.S. the book of Revelations is fully understandable by that which is written in the entire Old Testament, for all its prophecy and sybmolism is wrought out in the Old Testament.


11 posted on 06/08/2010 5:21:16 PM PDT by bibletruth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480; Iscool
But it is impious to believe that Our Lord has not left us some supreme judge on earth to whom we can address ourselves in our difficulties, and who is so infallible in his judgments that we cannot err.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

It is indeed "impious" to think our Heavenly Father would not give us a way to know his truth, but it is equally impious to believe that he would entrust such a vital role to fallible, sinful and power-hungry men. That the Roman Catholic Church proclaims itself/herself to be the arbiter of all truth when even her own exalted bishops could not usually agree among themselves on what constituted true doctrine should be a sure sign to all that God did not give this authority to a man-made institution.

Holy Scripture is the ultimate authority and any religion who places their traditions on equal footing with it cannot be trusted to be an infallible guide for our faith. Of course, if you want to trust them for your guide, be my guest, just don't presume to demand all who name the name of Christ submit to it as well. DeSales might have been able to influence many during the early Reformation with his intellect, but the Bible is readily available now to all who desire to know the Gospel and God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

12 posted on 06/08/2010 5:54:56 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TheThirdRuffian

Great deal of error in this article.....but again another reason I do not hold to the catholic church teachings.


13 posted on 06/08/2010 9:37:42 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson