Posted on 06/06/2010 3:29:47 AM PDT by GonzoII
Show me that in the Bible...not possible.
"roman catholics preach a false gospel of salvation as is evident to Bible believing Christians."
What is false is Sola Scriptura, can you show me that in the Bible?
Oh, my. If the majority of the posters on FR who deride "fundamentalist" Christians are any indication, an ignorance of history isn't so much an attribute of "fundamentalist" Christians, but of themselves.
Also, if the majority of the Catholic posters to FR are any indication, they're not in obedience to their church, deriding Vatican II as they invariably do. It's almost as if they have a problem with the authoritative "just because we said so" of their own magisterium, lol.
Start questioning that "just because we said so" and you're well on your way to crossing the Tiber towards us derided "fundamentalist" Christians.
Welcome home!
It suffers from the sin of the Evil One: Pride. May those who follow this author, Rather simple minded and supercilious.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
seek the face of YHvH in His Holy Word.
Could you refrase your question? I kinda understand what you are saying but if you could expand a little more I would discuss with you.
Going to be a beautiful day.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Going to be hot for early June here, 92, thunderstorms coming in late afternoon.
Also the word "profitable" does not mean sufficient.
2 Tim 3: 15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, 17 That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.
“Complete” means a bit more than sufficient, wouldn’t you say?
No, because "complete" in no way denies the existence of something else. A weapon without ammo is good for nothing except hand to hand combat.
Now I'd like to know how those verses tell me how the Bible as we know it with all its books is sufficient for knowing all truth necessary for salvation?
The Council of Nicea was a defense of the faith and the Trinity against several attacks against it by leaders of sects akin to Islam or Mormonism of latter days. I am proud to recite it.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tes ousias] of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of the same substance with the Father [homoousion to patri], through whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and our salvation descended, was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven and cometh to judge the living and the dead.
And in the Holy Ghost.
Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made out of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes.
OK, GonzoII. First, to your objection that this Biblical passage is Old Testament. You can't possibly be serious in thinking that this passage, stating as it does that All Scripture is given by inspiration of God could possibly have been negated by anything in the New Testament. Nothing in the Old was negated by the New. Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Law, the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. He brought a New Covenant, meaning that those in Him as Christians were and are redeemed through Him, no longer under the Law. That did not wipe out the meaning, significance or impact for non-Christians of that Law.
Now, on to the passage itself. We're talking about scripture, clearly, with Sola Scriptura. First, we have All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, meaning both Old and New Testaments. This means it's literally of God, it's The Word, superior to any tradition of man or teaching of man, especially those that do not withstand scrutiny via studying and understanding scripture, the Bible itself.
This leads to the next portion of the passage, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Doctrine comes from the Bible itself, according to the Bible. As if this alone weren't enough to justify Sola Scriptura, we're further instructed to use the Bible for reproof. Reproof means to correct error, to rebuke, to provide constructive criticism. We're also instructed to use the Bible for correction. Then, we're instructed to use the Bible for instruction in righteousness.
The next passage goes on to instruct us that anyone so equipped is complete, or in your preferred translation, perfect, for every good work.
The plain language makes it plain that the Bible is in and of itself more than just sufficient to provide, not just for our own Salvation, but to go out into the world and work to bring others to Salvation as well.
It's not profitable for you to seek to prove otherwise.
This passage is often used to defend Sola Scriptura, it gives no list of books, so how do you know which books are inspired, certainly you admit that these verses refer to the Old Testemant? It is up to you determine from these verses how the New Testament is inspired without refereing to the New Testament itself as proof because you are holding this as a defence of Sola Scriptura which belief includes the New Testament.
"Nothing in the Old was negated by the New. Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Law, the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. He brought a New Covenant, meaning that those in Him as Christians were and are redeemed through Him, no longer under the Law. That did not wipe out the meaning, significance or impact for non-Christians of that Law."
You are referring to the New Testament for authority but as yet have not proven its inspiration/authority.
"First, we have All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, meaning both Old and New Testaments."
The texts are clearly referring to the Old Testament as Timothy was in his infancy when he read the Scriptures Paul is talking about, there is no way this refers to the New Testament. How do you know which books of the Bible are inspired? Indeed those of the Old Testament itself? Paul does not specify.
That is circular reasoning. There needs to be an external authentication for the fact of inspiration, any book could then be written claiming to be the word of God.
Can you tell me which books of the Bible are inspired? Do you have list?
Why isn’t the question as to our position regarding the Creed rather than our position regarding the Council? Perhaps there were other outcomes produced by the Council.
As a Protestant, I have no problem reciting the Nicene Creed.
I got started with RugulatorCountry...Maybe nextime, thanks.
You wrote:
“As a Protestant, I have no problem reciting the Nicene Creed.”
Great. You can recite it. But do you believe in it?
Does it not begin with "All Scripture?" Yes, it does. The New Testament is scripture. The Old Testament is scripture. I thought I'd made myself amply clear in my original reply, but perhaps I'm accustomed to words being taken at face value, and you're not?
Next comes the debate about just what constitutes scripture. I accept all 66 Books of the Bible as scripture. I don't pretend to know exactly what you as a Catholic accept as scripture, or the specific whys and hows of it. I do know that those 39 books of the Old Testament and 27 books of the New Testament are not in dispute as scripture, among Protestants, Catholics or Orthodox.
Perhaps the question of acceptance as scripture is better directed back at you, since it's more of a question for you.
I don’t think that I need a visit from the Spanish Inquisition
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