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To: Leoni

Leoni said:
“I didn’t say that praying to God is talking to yourself. I said “Confessing your sins direct to God is no different than confessing to yourself”. Two totally different doctrines.”

The problem lies in the rigid construct through which you view the Scriptures. What our Lord taught us to pray in the 5th petition of the Our Father is indeed a confession of sin. If not, you tell us all, what is it? Now, to admit this is not to deny that there are other and commended ways to confess one’s sins and receive forgiveness (absolution) through the means of another called by God to grant such. (I am purposely speaking imprecisely here so as not to lead the discussion into another area before this is dealt with.)

That is the bottom line. Jesus taught us to ask directly of the Father that He forgive us our sins. Only one who believes in Jesus, that He is the appointed Messiah, the Savior of the world, the Son of God from eternity and yet also true man conceived and born in time to Mary, can so pray. To say any less is to deny the efficacy and manifest purpose of all other of the Prayer’s petitions. In other words, it is to tell Jesus that He mistaught us. I am not going to go there. Nor will I let others go there without pointing out their error.

This is a straw man only in your own wrongly ordered thinking.


457 posted on 06/03/2010 8:56:01 AM PDT by Belteshazzar
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To: Belteshazzar; Leoni

I offer the parable of the Pharisee(the Catholic latin intellectual mind) and the Publican(some poor slob at the end of his rope)...The rich man is PRAYING to God telling him all the good things he had done and then says..”and I thank you that I’m not like that publican over there”

The publican, sorrowfully, beasts his breast(man he must have been really hurting inside) can’t even lift his eyes to heaven and says “Lord, be merciful to me a sinner!”

So Leoni...was the Publican confessing to himself or to God?
And who was the Pharisee talking to? And which one did God ultimately listen to and justify? Which one did God exalt and which one did God humble?


467 posted on 06/03/2010 9:13:08 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (Mike Mathis is my name,opinions are my own,subject to flaming when deserved!)
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