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To: daniel1212

I never read that book but usually it Means Christ came thru her Meaning his humanity. So when they say thru Mary its in honor of her. I do believe Christ Has to honor her because of the commandment honor your Mother and father. When it reads co redeemer or any title it just means she and all who are believers are co-helpers too. I do say a certain amount of people go overboard. She can only intercede. She and any believer are in him with in the unity of the Holy Spirit. It does not mean you can’t pray to Jesus. Jesus is in the rosary. The rosary is only a devotional its never in the Mass. Meaning private individual or in a private group.


317 posted on 06/02/2010 7:21:48 PM PDT by johngrace (Where The Holy God dwelled for Nine Months -No sinful man entered! Praise Jesus & Hail Mary Indeed!)
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To: johngrace

I am glad you can admit that “certain amount of people go overboard”, though the stamp on such works and lack of discipline of the authors does not help your effort to minimize it. But prayer to departed saints is without Biblical warrant, and is contrary to whho the Bible says we should pray to, and the immediacy and sufficiency of Christ. This is briefly dealt with in post 203.

When you become born again you “have access by one Spirit unto the Father.” (Eph 2:18)

Good night.


319 posted on 06/02/2010 7:33:34 PM PDT by daniel1212 ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out " (Acts 3:19))
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To: johngrace
She can only intercede.

That's the bone of contention. The above is completely UNBIBLICAL.

Romans 8:26 - In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; [Its not Mary its the Holy Spirit in this passage]

Romans 8:27 - and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. ["The Spirit" and "He" not "She". No Mary here either].

Romans 8:34 - who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. [WHO is the intercessor? Who is at the right hand of God? CHRIST, NOT MARY!]

You will find no Scripture anywhere teaching Mary is an intercessor in any capacity. But you do find the exact opposite. To claim such an erroneous dogma that Mary intercedes, not only usurps the rightful place of Christ, it usurps the function of the Holy Spirit! If Mary 'can intercede' for us, then Christ and the Holy Spirit have their glory stripped from them and made insufficient to do the task of intercession. To suggest they need help in any way is to again challenge and rebell against their very being and essence. This is EXACTLY what Satan did prior to his expulsion from Heaven - desiring to be God.

This perverse dogma elevates Mary not only to a goddess like status equal TO Christ, but goes even further (if such repugnance is even possible) to even surpass HIS rightful Glory taking HIS job and HIS POSITION as intercessor AWAY FROM HIM! Such a teaching is the very heights of blasphemy. Amazing.

321 posted on 06/02/2010 7:45:12 PM PDT by conservativegramma
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