New Hope in Europe – Holy Russia

The Anglo-Catholic ^ | 5/25/10 | Fr. Anthony Chadwick

[marshmallow]

Some fear Russia. I have no fear that Russia could ever inflict anything on us that is worse than our liberal relativism and rotten politics.

Russia has passed through the darkness. Light is now coming back to this deeply spiritual people.

[pgkdan]

What strikes me in Patriarch Kirill’s writing, Norm of Faith as Norm of Life, is a convergence with a former reflection of mine in The Anglo-Catholic, that of the futility of moral and political combats without first transmitting the faith. Before we can fight the evils of abortion and perverted sexuality and other such problems of society, we have to transmit faith in God and the experience of conversion to Christ. Otherwise, activism is futile. How refreshing it is to read the teaching of the Patriarch of Moscow!

Amen! Without faith in God and conversion to Christ all one has is the flesh. We need to give them a reason to support life and to see the sanctity of chastity and charity. Preach the Gospel always and sometimes even use words!

[Samogon]

Are you serious?! Russian Church to save Europe? The same clerical mafia that always supported the darkest regimes in human history? And you praise Cyrill which is the biggest alcohol, tobacco and narcobaron in Russia and, perhaps, the world? You are either delusional or malinformed.

[pgkdan]

Some fear Russia. I have no fear that Russia could ever inflict anything on us that is worse than our liberal relativism and rotten politics. Let them come and help us to be manly enough to welcome Christ and be ready, like them, to resist anything the Devil can throw against us.

I can only agree with that!

[Samogon]

“I have no fear that Russia could ever inflict anything on us”?
You have no idea. Better wake up.

[marshmallow]

I might be delusional but I'm definitely not a cynic.

Peter and the other apostles abandoned the Lord in his hour of greatest need. Yet they went on to evangelize the world.

The Russian Church is aware of its past failings and the scars left by communism. Like the apostles, however, there is always a new beginning and a chance to walk in the light.

[Samogon]

Read this:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/20/putin-solzhenitsyn-kirill-russia-opinions-contributors_orthodox_church.html
If this article will not open your eyes - nothing will.

[Leoni]

Thanks for the link that highlights Kirill I's KGB connections and his wealth (which I didn't know)

Like I said in full detail in the other two threads on "dialogue" with Kirill I, patriarch of Moscow and all Russia:

The "dialogue" is a lie, there is no dialogue when one side is hiding the truth. The Catholic Church's side is hiding truths, hiding is a form of a lie (Honorius I was excommunicated for doing the same thing) You can't lie, even to save the world.

What I'm highlighting is the fact that there is scarcely a Catholic that thinks that the Orthodox are still heretics, schismatic, their sacraments are not efficacious to salvation for the heretic and schismatic, and the Russian Orthodox church is loaded with KGB agents. They are not to be trusted, and anything that they do and say, are to be taken with suspicion.

[marshmallow]

It's an article. A point of view. I'm familiar with much of the content.

Kiril may well have been a KGB agent. Putin certainly was. I don't see that as an insurmountable issue.

As for Kiril's so called "denial of human rights", I say more power to him. I think his complete disdain for the western secular sacred cows of homosexual "rights", diversity etc, is just great. Good for him. Every society has the right to define its own identity and values and Russia is no exception.

A civil law based on the moral law.

What a concept!

[Samogon]

You know who else was famous for “complete disdain for the western secular sacred cows of homosexual “rights”, diversity etc”? Name Adolf doesn't ring the bell? May be Josef? Or Mao?
We are endowed by God with certain unalienable rights, among them - to die in sin. No nazi or commie or prude has a right to deny that.

[stripes1776]

The Russian Church is aware of its past failings and the scars left by communism. Like the apostles, however, there is always a new beginning and a chance to walk in the light.

Well that awakening of the Russian Church only took 60 million mass murders of its citizens. Some alarm clock!

[marshmallow]

So we have two alternatives. Accept the whole putrid, amoral package of the secular libertines and moral relativists or succumb to Nazism?

That's what is known as the "error of a false dichotomy".

Furthermore, there is no God given "right" to sin nor is there any God given "right" to enact laws which recognize sin or facilitate it. God gave us free will but try not to confuse the gift of free will with "rights". Man's freedom is limited and fallible. In fact, man failed. He freely sinned. By refusing God's plan of love, he deceived himself and became a slave to sin. This first alienation engendered a multitude of others. From its outset, human history attests the wretchedness and oppression born of the human heart in consequence of the abuse of freedom.

The exercise of freedom does not imply a right to say or do everything. It is false to maintain that man, "the subject of this freedom," is "an individual who is fully self-sufficient and whose finality is the satisfaction of his own interests in the enjoyment of earthly goods.

The fact that Russia is resisting attempts to impose a foreign set of values is to be applauded. The fact that Russia sees the need to base the civil law on the moral law is to be applauded. The fact that Russia sees and is beginning to reject the great moral errors embraced by decaying western societies is to be applauded.

Western Europe is moribund and the US is not far behind. Amazing that Russia would be reluctant to go down that road, isn't it?

[marshmallow]

Well that awakening of the Russian Church only took 60 million mass murders of its citizens. Some alarm clock!

And many of those were Christians. The Church in Russia was persecuted. Some members chose martyrdom, some collaborated or acquiesced to the tyranny.

How many Christians in America have made their peace with this culture of death which surrounds us? How many have we eliminated? Only fifty million?

Does that mean there is no way back for America or those who walk past abortion clinics with barely a thought? No.

As long as God is in control there is always hope and always forgiveness and a new beginning.

[Samogon]

There are only two roads for societies: towards individual freedom or towards a dictatorship. We can waiver around, but general direction is easily detectable. You seem to like the second road, I will stay on first - I am allergic to commands. Good luck with your future owner, he may be benevolent enough to your liking!

[Pyro7480]

There are only two roads for societies: towards individual freedom or towards a dictatorship.

It depends on what you mean by "individul freedom," and that's what marshmallow's point was. If you take the secularist's view, then "individual freedom" means that there are no objective moral standards. Pope Leo XIII put it this way:

There is no question here respecting forms of government, for there is no reason why the Church should not approve of the chief power being held by one man or by more, provided only it be just, and that it tend to the common advantage. Wherefore, so long as justice be respected, the people are not hindered from choosing for themselves that form of government which suits best either their own disposition, or the institutions and customs of their ancestors.

The most important thing, therefore, is JUSTICE.

[marshmallow]

There are only two roads for societies: towards individual freedom or towards a dictatorship. We can waiver around, but general direction is easily detectable

Ironically, history shows us that an absence of morality and an erroneous understanding of freedom leads inexorably and inevitably to dictatorship.

As the values of the supposedly "free" western world continue to crumble, watch for its laws to become ever more oppressive and collectivist. In contrast, those countries which have been down this road and understand that true freedom is found in God will begin to flourish.

[Samogon]

“It depends” is a classic catch phrase of relativism. Freedom is absolute. So long as you don't step on anybodies’ toes - you are free to do whatever.
And pay for consequences, of course.
Any infringement on absolute freedom, no matter how well intentioned, opens crack a little wider for other violations. The process has a tipping point, beyond which the dam needs to be rebuilt from ground up. I am afraid we in US are well over the edge on this, and only inertia is keeping us from free fall to abyss.
But Russian populace ALWAYS lived in slavery, they don't want any dam! And you guys are praising them as Prometheus of sorts to the western world?!

[Pyro7480]

So you agree with their redefinition of “freedoms” and “rights”?

[Samogon]

Is it English test? You know well what I mean, stop drowning the discussion in casuistics.

[Pyro7480]

No, part of the problem is that people think that the only options are one extreme or the other- absolute freedom or absolute tyranny. The reality of America up until relatively recently was “ordered liberty.” Read Russell Kirk’s “Roots of American Order”