Posted on 05/21/2010 8:22:46 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
“Their purpose was to contend, they had no interest in truth, they were there to catch Jesus in a snare!”
Yep. It’s a familiar concept, isn’t it?
JS was called of the Lord Jesus Christ!
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SAYS WHO? Joseph Smith himself? How can anyone trust the word of a known liar, and conman? Seriously.
Smith wasn’t called of God any more than he was a monogamist.
“Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, for the doctrines of an impostor cannot be made to harmonize in all particulars with divine truth. If his claims and declarations were built upon fraud and deceit, there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect. The doctrines of false teachers will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement, the scriptures.” - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1954, vol. 1, p. 188
It seems your tongue gets the best of you...
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Huh? That makes no sense in response to my post.
Have you ever heard of ‘non sequiter’?
No, ‘there I went’ explaining how the LDS misuse the ‘right hand’ of God as ‘evidence’ that God has a physical body (which would make Christ a liar, btw since He said God is spirit).
Perfect summary!
Milk before meat seems to spoils your agenda...
This is what Lucifer did in the garden he was teaching meat before milk knowing it would cause others to stumble....
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OH WOW!
My only ‘agenda’ is to get you and other LDS to WAKE UP and see the lies your so called church tells you. One of which is this stupid, stupid, stupid idea that God has ‘hidden’ knowledge for the ‘worthy’ (milk before meat). The LDS idea of ‘milk before meat’ is not only a twisting of scripture (no surprise there) but feeds their self-righteousness.
God does not lie, and He does not keep what is sacred a secret.
LUCIFER LIED!!! He wasn’t teaching meat before milk. Do you have any idea how blasphemous your statement is?!?!?!
And your statement also goes against LDS theology that states the ‘fall’ was a ‘fall upward’ and Adam and Eve HAD to sin in order to have children.
So which is it? did they ‘stumble’? Or were they ‘courageous’ by sinning against God?
The Mormon godhead: Father Son and Holy Ghost.
Mormonism 101 (for you students on this bright Monday morning):
Q. What is the Mormon 'godhead'?
A. The 'Mormon godhead,' while originally derived from the KJV Bible (used three times in the KJV NT) and simply reflects the underlying Greek word for "deity" -- is a Mormon theological/cultural word that allows them to substitute a biblical word for the "Trinity" without them having to use the word, "Trinity."
Q. Why do they use that?
A. Because Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders have given the word "Trinity" a bad rap over the generations. Yet these Mormon leaders need to somehow explain all the "Trinitarian" verses in the Book of Mormon. So it allows Lds leaders to be semi-trinitarian at times -- when they need to be -- before they elsewhere reference it as an "abomination" of the devil!
Q. Could you provide Book of Mormon examples?
Oh yes. (And BTW, while I mention Book of Mormon examples below, it's not limited to that...Smith was semi-Trinitarian and engaged in modalism early on...as reflected in Doctrine & Covenants 20:28 and 35:2 -- both written in 1830...but he eventually opted for all-out polytheism).
Book of Mormon:
Intro: Testimony of Three Witnesses: And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God.
And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God. (2 Nephi 31:21)
...the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one. (3 Nephi 11:27,36)
...every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which IS [not ARE] one eternal God... (Alma 11:44)
...given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7: Please note: the original 1830 Book of Mormon had the word "is" prior to one God...BoM editors then changed it to "are"...a "shaking-the-head" kind of thought given that they left other "testimony" untouched -- such as the 3 witnesses -- along with 2 Nephi 31:21 and Alma 11:44)
...there is a true and living God...Is there more than one God? And he answered, No (Alma 11:27-29)
...Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit...and all this, that this man might know that he was God... (Ether 3:17-18)
Other Book of Mormon verses which say that Jesus is God:
2 Nephi 10:3
2 Nephi 11:7
2 Nephi 26:12
Also, Alma 18:28 says that the Holy Ghost is God.
satan lied to Eve.
satan lied to joseph smith.
joseph smith lied and his minions continue to lie to the lds.
That’s some pretty aggressive boasting you have going on right there. You’ve attended EVERY “mainstream” church and have studied their doctrines enough to be able to lay that absurd claim in this forum?
Do you have ANY PROOF to substantiate that claim?
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Of course she doesn’t. And how can someone who cannot put together a coherent sentence or understand BASIC theology expect us to believe that they understand the doctrines of all ‘mainstream’ churches?
Really, talk about absurd...
LOL
much better. Thank you.
A) Source?
B) It is referenceing PARABLES not secret doctrine. A Parable is a form of address.
C) ALL THINGS were revealed upon His death. I stated that in my original post about this.
D) Christ’s use of parables is in no way the same as the LDS hiding doctrine under the guise of ‘milk before meat’.
Not even a really good try, Resty.
Genesis 3 doesn’t state ANYTHING about Lucifer teaching meat before milk.
More LDS scripture twisting.
I will do you one better I will show you from the OT & NT that there were angel men
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NOPE, not even close.
Just because angels can take on human form to fulfill their duty IN NO WAY means they are human.
As I covered in my last post, the Mormon use of “godhead” – while providing some limited plausible cover for Mormon leaders in trying to “explain” the Trinitarian Book of Mormon & D&C passages (though I’m not really sure how “godhead” is really less of a “Trinitarian” term than “Trinity” – all of this has left vast confusion amongst Lds theologians and grassroots alike)
#1, it’s yet another reasons Lds don’t really “go” for theologians, at all, given the vast confusing maze of Mormonistic thought.
Lds “apostle” Bruce R. McConkie is Exhibit A: (Imagine an Lds attorney being such an exhibit)
Here we have the ONLY Lds general authority presumptive enough to write a book called “Mormon Doctrine” – and have it stick on the scene for about half a century of Mormonism. An article last week in the Salt Lake Trib -- Landmark 'Mormon Doctrine' goes out of print -- says of McConkie’s book: "Mormon Doctrine served two generations of the Mormon rank and file as the main authoritative source of LDS teachings," said LDS sociologist Armand Mauss. "With its authoritative tone and constant promotion from high places, it came to be regularly cited in the church curriculum, especially in [Church Educational System] materials, and soon took on almost a scriptural stature."..."The book became one of the all-time best-sellers in Mormondom," they wrote, "achieving the near-canonical status..."
(You would have NEVER thought of the above given the way Resty took pot shots at McConkie in post # 317!!!)
#2 So, here we have a Mormon general authority, “apostle” level…
…bestowed by having a book published under 7 different Lds “prophets” (McKay, Lee, Kimball, Benson, Hunter, Hinckley, Monson)…
…a book published by the Mormon-church owned Deseret Book Publishers (1993)…
…and you might think that Resty has some kind of point when she says that “McConkie…never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost!”
But have you read the book Mormon Doctrine, Resty? Yes? No?
What is interesting about this book is that here we have the leading Mormon theologian & general authority of his day, and yet he himself became vastly confused over simple mathematics when it came to describing God!!!
Allow me to elaborate:
* How many (true) gods are worshiped according to this LDS apostle's "Mormon Doctrine" 1966 book? (Three according to the Mormon definition of Heavenly Father and Jesus and the Holy Ghost being three separate gods): "Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)
* Oh, wait a minute. (I should have kept reading). McConkie, on p. 848, only emphasizes worshiping two gods: "The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship....No one can worship the Father without also worshiping the Son....It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 848).
* Oh, wait. By 1982, McConkie changes his mind upon giving a special devo @ BYU almost 28 years ago (March 2, 1982, "Our Relationship with the Lord.") Essentially, McConkie wasn't happy with either his "3" god or "2" god worship. So he came up with a kind of 1 1/2-god worship to present to BYU students:
We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.
Bottom line: Resty, McConkie couldn’t even define the godhead, let alone promote or deny Him!
So, tell us, Resty, is the "Godhead" a Him or a Them. For worship purposes, McConkie, leading Mormon theologian, didn't seem to have a clue. He was vastly confused.
Mormons, don't you think it's time to leave this tangled mass of confusion all behind?
Come to the true Jesus. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. If you and your spouse can share the same last-name identity. The same flesh (Jesus says in Matt. 19 you become one flesh). If that's true of you, then God certainly knows how to be even more intimately diverse, yet definingly ONE personal and inter-personal BEING!
And your statement also goes against LDS theology that states the ‘fall’ was a ‘fall upward’ and Adam and Eve HAD to sin in order to have children.
So which is it? did they ‘stumble’? Or were they ‘courageous’ by sinning against God?
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So any mormon females who want a maternity eternity have got to sin to get it ???
No wonder they are punished forever with painful childbearing ...
What sick twisted freaky puppie thought up that one ???
Real Biblical Christ Placemarker
Resty - reference by reference - nothing you posted says anything about humans being angels BEFORE our ‘first estate’ (original post) or even that humans HAVE ‘estates’.
Really, Resty, the LDS need to learn how to read the Bible.
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*** Ecc 3 - 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. — Here is the literal from the Hebrew of that verse. “estate” is only in the ENGLISH and only in the KJV
I-said I in·heart-of·me on matter-of sons-of the·human to·to-purify-of·them the·Elohim and·to·to-show-of which·they beast they to them (http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/qoh3.pdf)
Ecc 3:18 -
New International Version (©1984)
I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals.
New Living Translation (©2007)
I also thought about the human condition—how God proves to people that they are like animals.
English Standard Version (©2001)
I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
I said to myself concerning the sons of men, “God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts.”
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I thought to myself, “God is going to test humans in order to show them that they are [like] animals.”
King James Bible
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
American King James Version
I said in my heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
American Standard Version
I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.
Bible in Basic English
I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, so that God may put them to the test and that they may see themselves as beasts.
Douay-Rheims Bible
I said in my heart concerning the sons of men, that God would prove them, and shew them to be like beasts.
Darby Bible Translation
I said in my heart, It is thus with the children of men, that God may prove them, and that they should see that they themselves are but beasts.
English Revised Version
I said in mine heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.
Webster’s Bible Translation
I said in my heart concerning the state of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
World English Bible
I said in my heart, “As for the sons of men, God tests them, so that they may see that they themselves are like animals.
Young’s Literal Translation
I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.
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Ezekiel 16 (Yet in the last days the Lord will again establish his covenant with her.) -— This is in no way related to ‘estates’. Not sure why you put it in.
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Jude 1 (Contend for the faith—Some angels kept not their first estate—Michael disputed about the body of Moses—Enoch prophesied of Second Coming—Mockers shall come in the last days.) - using LDS heading does not count as providing scripture. And I have already proven that the LDS take this out of context upthread.
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Abraham 3(and the second estate of man. ) - Using proven fraudlent works does nothing to advance the LDS cause.
LDS doctrine is that Adam and Eve HAD to sin, because otherwise they could never have had children. They teach that the ‘fall’ was a GOOD thing because it was necessary for us to come to earth to get our bodies to progress to Godhood.
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