Avoid Intellectual Suicide: Do Not Interpret the Bible Like a Fundamentalist

Vox Nova ^ | May 14,2 010 | Henry Karlson

[rollo tomasi]

“The Assumption was believed by many for a long time, for centuries...”

By who? Why so long to be an established belief which leads to a possible damnation exile from the Church? as well as, By what PRIMARY source was this “revelation” based on? (i,e First century sources please, which would have been all over the place like the Canons due to the miraculous event which would have furthered promoted Christ's Deity status during the 1st century)

Who is right, the ex cathedra of Munificentissimus Deus which states you are in spiritual exile/”dead” if you even question the Pope's “superpower” of declaring dogma without a primary source/tradition from various Councils/Synods that were ESTABLISHED in order to reach consensus, the Dormition of the Theotokos, which does not kick you out of the Eastern Orthodox Church if you question events that lack a primary source (Well understood, due to the early Church Fathers’ stance), or not caring about Mary's death/assuming being assumed by Christ, because it is perceived as personnel, an attempt to argue from silence, as well as provides not one single ounce of meaning towards the salvation of the (Soul) individual (Unless you believe Pope Pius XII’s “superpower” which another mother Church, the “Orthodoxes” say, where did that power come from?) .

[rollo tomasi]

furthered= further

[betty boop]

Physically, that message is our DNA, the information content that uniquely describes who we physically are. We are physically alive because that message, who we are, is being communicated throughout our physical bodies.... Likewise, spiritually, we are spiritually alive because His message of Who He IS is being communicated in our spirits. Or to put it another way, I am enlivened by His words. That is the “needful part” Mary found and Jesus promises will never be taken away.

So beautifully, beautifully said, dearest sister in Christ!

Thank you ever so much for this outstanding essay/post!

To God be the glory!

[Mad Dawg]

This one thinks that "no one is righteous, no, not one" is meant to be a theological statement formed as the major premise of a syllogism but then picks and chooses when Jesus says "This is my body."

Another says Jesus meant the mystery he announced to be 'really' and 'substantially' true, and thinks that "all have sinned" is Semitic poetry and NOT the major premise of a syllogism.

I do not see how to stand outside the problem and choose. So I go with the people I respect the most and with my experience, in prayer and life. My devotion to Christ and my self commitment to his service somehow organically led to my lively and increasing devotion to His Mother.
Your mileage may vary.

Got any colored sheep? And can you give a hint as to the area wherein all these breeds are kept? Do you shear?

Quix: All I can see is the articulation of the contrary position and the approval of the words of others. I know you disagree. It's okay. GOd is smarter than either of us.

[Alamo-Girl]

And thank you oh so very much, dearest sister in Christ, for your encouragements!

I had been struggling for months on how to explain that "epiphany" - and finally boiled it down to the part you excerpted. Thank you so much for affirming that it is finally clear (or at least, clear-er.)

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

[trisham]

:)

[the invisib1e hand]

been-there-done-that bump.

Thank God for the Church.

[WorldviewDad]

Really not understanding the response...”all have sinned” is a statement of fact with in Scripture. Either all is still all or we pick and choose...

I have learned to rely on Scripture as the source of truth instead of people that I respect since they are still people and are part of the “all have sinned” group (as I am). If what anybody teaches goes against Scripture I will reject their teaching.

We have white, black, brown, and grey sheep that we shear for the wool and also raise some that go into the freezer each year.

[Logophile]

LDS doctrine states that Jesus is a created being by Heavenly Father, who has become God (a lesser God, but still God), and the Holy Spirit was up until recently not considered a being at all. However, the LDS teach that as Jesus was (a man become god), so may all men become gods, each in charge of their own universe. The women, though, kinda get short shrifted. They are eternally pregnant with their god-owner's children in the new universes. How'd I do, Logophile?

I would correct a few points:

1. We do not teach that Jesus is a "created being." The idea of a created (or contingent) being is foreign to Mormonism. We do not believe in creation ex nihilo.

2. Jesus was not a man who became God. He was God who became a mortal man. Since the resurrection, He has resumed His place at the right hand of the Father.

3. Some early LDS may have been unsure about whether the Holy Ghost is a being. However, Doctrine and Covenants Section 130 (dated 2 April 1843) states that the Holy Ghost "is a personage of Spirit."

4. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all men may become "gods, even the sons of God." However, they remain subordinate to Christ (D&C 76:59).

5. The idea that we may become gods in charge of our own universes (or planets) is, so far as I can tell, folklore. I know of nothing in Mormon scripture or the authoritative statements of the prophets that supports the notion. I suppose that God will continue to create "worlds without number" (Moses 1:33, 38), and that His children may participate in the creation process; but they will not act independently.

6. The idea that exalted women are "eternally pregnant" appears to be more folklore. It could be called anti-Mormon folklore because it seems to be taught only by opponents of the LDS Church. (The infamous movi e The Godmakers may have been the source of this belief.)

7. Women are not owned by their husbands, either here or in the hereafter. Marriage is required of all those who would receive the highest degree of glory; hence, the husband needs the wife as much as she needs him.

[Scythian]

Rightly so, and that is why I hated going to catholic church, I felt guilty cause I knew I wasn’t good enough, imagine my shock when I realized everything I was taught was wrong, that salvation was not by works !!!

[theoldmarine]

The Church is the living witness of Christ in the world and it is only through her that the Bible has meaning to me. I can say, with St. Augustine, I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.

The church is product of the Gospel, not the other way around. Why in the world do you guys keep dodging my question?
Which “catholic church”. Churches of the Middle East which descended directly from the original Jerusalem congregation, the Byzantine Church which really was the “official roman empire” after the split, or the Roman church?

[1000 silverlings]

Acts 7:38

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

[metmom]

Works is used to keep people down.

The truth will set us free. If you’re not free, it’s not truth.

[WorldviewDad]

Thank you

[1000 silverlings]

Goddesses must have perpetual virginity, it’s a requirement

[Mad Dawg]

Really not understanding the response...”all have sinned” is a statement of fact with in Scripture. Either all is still all or we pick and choose.

In my opinion we all pick and choose. Viz: Let "all have sinned" mean that the set of all humans is a subset of all sinners.
Jesus was fully human,that is, Jesus is a member of the set of all humans.
So Jesus is a member of the set of all sinners ->Jesus has sinned.

Now that may seem artificial, but how shall we show the intelligent Martian that when we say, "No.Jesus was also the Son of God; He united in one person human nature and divine nature," we are not picking and choosing.

So my citing of "This is my body." We can say He meant something like "This represents my body," but who gets to make the call? So when Chaguito saith:
What is 'basic dogmatic teaching' if not ideology?
my answer is yes indeed. It is, however, an extensively stated (if sometimes bewildering) ideology. But if one wants to do the scholarship, one can track it down and discern the order (or attempt at order) in it.

To us, on the one hand, the claim that every plowboy can understand Scripture is weakened by the competing claims of Calvinists, Lutherans, Arminians, dispensationalists, Jehovah's Witness, etc.

While, on the other hand, we find in Acts 15:28 a precedent for an Ecumenical Council (or maybe a synod) pronouncing, in the name of the Holy Spirit, a matter of faith (Gentiles don't need to become Jews to become Christians) and of morals (avoid illicit sexual intercourse.)

So despite the manifest and sometimes disgraceful earthen nature of the vessels through whom this teaching comes, we find it authoritative, rather than the ideologies of others.

I do not mean this to be argumentative but expository. I am not defending our thought so much as trying to lay it out clearly.

[Mad Dawg]

Thank you for this clear exposition.

[Mad Dawg]

If you were taught that salvation is by works, you were not taught the Catholic faith.

I KNOW there's a lot of that going round. I can quote Augustine and the Catechism as well as Scripture and some of the blue-haired mafia will have none of it.

BTW, my mother, an ardent anti-Catholic, argued long and loud against Justification by grace through faith.

[Luke21]

Friends:

We who love the Lord must be of good cheer and prepare to have maximum influence for the Gospel and our Savior during these difficult times. Others on the outside often see us as contentious verbal brawlers and harsh judges who resemble the pharisees.

Our constant fighting over jots and tittles accomplishes nothing. Let us bless each other. Let us revere each another and love one another.

[Mad Dawg]

That's a 10-4, uh, I mean, Amen.

Discussing is good. Cheap debates, not so much.