Posted on 05/14/2010 11:03:45 AM PDT by NYer
Holy Scripture, despite all appearances, will not always be easy to interpret. We can be lulled into thinking our common sense and by the letter interpretation of a text is what God intends us to get out of it. However, if this is the case, there would be little to no debates about its meaning; there would be little confusion as to its purpose and how it applies to us today. St. Peter would not have needed to tell us that no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted privately, because all interpretations of Scripture would end up the same. We need to understand and heed the warning of St. Mark the Ascetic: Do not let your heart become conceited about your interpretations of Scripture, lest your intellect fall afoul for the spirit of blasphemy. [1] Why would he be warning us of this? Because Scripture, in its most external, simplistic level, could easily lead people to a perverted understanding of God and the Christian faith.
For an interpretation of Scripture to be acceptable (which does not mean it is necessarily correct), it must at least conform to the basic dogmatic teachings of the Church. If God is love, this must be manifest from ones understanding of Scripture. If ones interpretation of a text would lead to God doing or commanding something which runs against the law of love, the law by which God himself acts, then one has indeed committed blasphemy. If one really believes God commands some intrinsic evil, such as genocide, one has abandoned the God who is love, and has at least committed unintentional blasphemy by something evil about him. One cannot get out of this by saying, whatever God wills, is now good, or that the very nature of right and wrong has changed through time, because both would contradict not only the fundamental character of love, but also the fact God has provided us a positive means by which we can understand something of him via analogy; we know what love is, we know what the good is, and therefore we know something about God when we see he is love or that he is good. While we must understand our concepts are limited in relation to God, it is not because God is less than our concepts, but more and their foundation. Thus, Pope Benedict wisely says:
In contrast with the so-called intellectualism of Augustine and Thomas, there arose with Duns Scotus a voluntarism which, in its later developments, led to the claim that we can only know God’s voluntas ordinata. Beyond this is the realm of God’s freedom, in virtue of which he could have done the opposite of everything he has actually done. This gives rise to positions which clearly approach those of Ibn Hazm and might even lead to the image of a capricious God, who is not even bound to truth and goodness. God’s transcendence and otherness are so exalted that our reason, our sense of the true and good, are no longer an authentic mirror of God, whose deepest possibilities remain eternally unattainable and hidden behind his actual decisions. As opposed to this, the faith of the Church has always insisted that between God and us, between his eternal Creator Spirit and our created reason there exists a real analogy, in which – as the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 stated – unlikeness remains infinitely greater than likeness, yet not to the point of abolishing analogy and its language. God does not become more divine when we push him away from us in a sheer, impenetrable voluntarism; rather, the truly divine God is the God who has revealed himself as logos and, as logos, has acted and continues to act lovingly on our behalf. Certainly, love, as Saint Paul says, “transcends” knowledge and is thereby capable of perceiving more than thought alone (cf. Eph 3:19); nonetheless it continues to be love of the God who is Logos. Consequently, Christian worship is, again to quote Paul – “λογικη λατρεία”, worship in harmony with the eternal Word and with our reason (cf. Rom 12:1).[2]
Christianity affirms both the transcendence and immanence of God. The second allows us to say something positive and true about God, while the first reminds us that positive assertions are limited, that they are at best analogous pointers to something beyond the statements themselves. Our teachings truly say something about God. They must be used as the guideline by which we read Scripture. Moreover, as the Church makes abundantly clear, Scripture is itself an ecclesial document, to be interpreted in and by the Church. It must be interpreted in such a way that dogmatic teachings about God (such as his unchanging goodness) are in accord with our understanding of Scriptural text. If reason suggests a disconnect between an interpretation and dogma, we must follow dogma and dismiss the interpretation. Richard Gaillardetz explains this well:
The apostolic witness would be preserved both in the canonical Scriptures and in the ongoing paradosis or handing on of the apostolic faith in the Christian community. The unity of Scripture and tradition is grounded then in the one word whose presence in human history comes to its unsurpassable actualization in Jesus Christ. Scripture and tradition must be viewed as interrelated witnesses to that word. Furthermore, neither Scripture nor tradition can be separated from the Church. The unity of Scripture, tradition and the living communion of the Church itself is fundamental.[3]
Revelation, therefore, is centered upon Jesus Christ and through Christ, the whole of the Holy Trinity:
The principal purpose to which the plan of the old covenant was directed was to prepare for the coming of Christ, the redeemer of all and of the messianic kingdom, to announce this coming by prophecy (see Luke 24:44; John 5:39; 1 Peter 1:10), and to indicate its meaning through various types (see 1 Cor. 10:12). Now the books of the Old Testament, in accordance with the state of mankind before the time of salvation established by Christ, reveal to all men the knowledge of God and of man and the ways in which God, just and merciful, deals with men. These books, though they also contain some things which are incomplete and temporary, nevertheless show us true divine pedagogy.[4]
If the vision of God that one gets out of Scripture is not one which reveals his justice and mercy, the reader of the text has missed something about the text itself. Perhaps the mistake lies in their interpretive scheme, where they assume the text follows the contours of modern historical writings. This is not the case; indeed Christians since the beginning of Church history have understood a very different scheme for the Biblical text: one which presents a kind of history but uses that history to present a deeper, more fundamental understanding of the world. Texts which are seen as impossible, if interpreted as history, nonetheless must be accepted, not because they are historical, but because they reveal something theological. St. Neilos the Ascetic, for example, takes 2 Samuel 4:5-8[5] as being historically absurd. This, he thinks, should be obvious. But if this is the case, does it make the text meaningless? By no means:
It is clear that this story in Scripture should not be taken literally. For how could a king have a woman as door-keeper, when he ought properly to be guarded by a troop of soldiers, and to have round him a large body of attendants? Or how could he be so poor as to use her to winnow the wheat? But improbable details are often included in a story because of the deeper truths they signify. Thus the intellect in each of us resides within like a king, while the reason acts as door-keeper of the senses. When the reason occupies itself with bodily things and to winnow wheat is something bodily he enemy without difficulty slips past unnoticed and slays the intellect.[6]
This scheme was in accord with what Origen taught. Indeed, he believed that the writers were inspired to put in statements which were absurd so as to remind us not to take the text so simply, but to look for the deeper, spiritual nourishment we can get from them, even for those texts which also have a real historical basis:
But since, if the usefulness of the legislation, and the sequence and beauty of the history, were universally evident of itself, we should not believe that any other thing could be understood in the Scriptures save what was obvious, the word of God has arranged that certain stumbling-blocks, as it were, and offenses, and impossibilities, should be introduced into the midst of the law and the history, in order that we may not, through being drawn away in all directions by the merely attractive nature of the language, either altogether fall away from the (true) doctrines, as learning nothing worthy of God, or, by not departing from the letter, come to the knowledge of nothing more divine. And this also we must know, that the principal aim being to announce the spiritual connection in those things that are done, and that ought to be done, where the Word found that things done according to the history could be adapted to these mystical senses, He made use of them, concealing from the multitude the deeper meaning; but where, in the narrative of the development of super-sensual things, there did not follow the performance of those certain events, which was already indicated by the mystical meaning, the Scripture interwove in the history (the account of) some event that did not take place, sometimes what could not have happened; sometimes what could, but did not. And sometimes a few words are interpolated which are not true in their literal acceptation, and sometimes a larger number.[7]
Scripture, of course, was written by various people. While they were inspired by God to write what they wrote, and God inspired the Church to collect the texts it did, in the form it did, we must also understand that the people behind the texts are not mere puppets being forced by God to write as they did. Thus, when patristic authors, or the Church, asserts God as the author of the text, we must not take this as fundamentalists do, but rather recognize that God works with authors based upon their ability and through their cooperation with his intended purposes: The fathers look upon the Bible above all as the Book of God, the single work of a single author. This does not mean, however, that they reduce the human authors to nothing more than passive instruments; they are quite capable, also, of according to a particular book its own specific purpose.[8] Indeed, God can inspires people to reveal something about him without their knowing of it, or knowing the meaning behind their words, as St Edith Stein masterfully explains:
Must the inspired person who is the instrument of a divine revelation be aware of the fact? Must he know that he has been illuminated, must he himself have received a revelation? We may well imagine cases where none of this is true. It is not impossible that someone utter a revelation without realizing it, without having received a revelation from God, without even being aware that he is speaking in Gods name or feeling supported by Gods Spirit in what he says and how he says it. He may think he is only voicing his own insight and in the words of his choosing.
Thus Caiphas says in the Sanhedrin : You know nothing and do not consider that it is better for you that one man die for the people and not the whole people parish. And John adds: but his he said not of himself but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the people Hence Caiphas spoke in Gods name and followed divine instructions without either knowing it or wishing to do so. John, however, knows that Caiphas was speaking Gods word and perhaps that he was himself enlightened by God as he wrote this. Does John know the prophetic meaning of Caiphas words through a revelation accorded him? Quite possibly. But it may also be that the fulfillment of those words in the death of Jesus and Johns view of the overall work of salvation made him realize their prophetic nature.[9]
Now this is not to say it is the norm, nor common, but, as we see, a person inspired by God does not have to understand the meaning of their words, nor that they are actually saying something that will be collected together as being inspired by God. The intention of God as the inspired author of Scripture does not have to be one with the intended meaning of the human author, and indeed, could be one which runs contrary to what such a human might have thought (as, for example, we find in the case of Jonah).
Thus, it is important to discuss inspiration, but as the Pontifical Biblical Commission warns us, we must not follow the simplistic interpretation found within fundamentalism:
Fundamentalism is right to insist on the divine inspiration of the Bible, the inerrancy of the word of God and other biblical truths included in its five fundamental points. But its way of presenting these truths is rooted in an ideology which is not biblical, whatever the proponents of this approach might say. For it demands an unshakable adherence to rigid doctrinal points of view and imposes, as the only source of teaching for Christian life and salvation, a reading of the Bible which rejects all questioning and any kind of critical research.[10]
And, it is especially when people take the Bible as history where this becomes the problem. Fundamentalism also places undue stress upon the inerrancy of certain details in the biblical texts, especially in what concerns historical events or supposedly scientific truth.[11] It creates a false, blasphemous view of God through its simplistic understanding of the text, and demand adherence to that simplistic view, with the explanation that if one denies this scheme, one must reject Scripture itself. There is no basis by which one can understand the deeper, spiritual value of revelation. And it is for this reason it ends up creating an evil-looking God, and promotes the acceptance of intrinsic evils such as racism or genocide as being good if and when God commanded them. Fundamentalism likewise tends to adopt very narrow points of view. It accepts the literal reality of an ancient, out-of-date cosmology simply because it is found expressed in the Bible; this blocks any dialogue with a broader way of seeing the relationship between culture and faith. Its relying upon a non-critical reading of certain texts of the Bible serves to reinforce political ideas and social attitudes that are marked by prejudicesracism, for examplequite contrary to the Christian Gospel.[12] While simple, it is this simplicity which leads to a letter that kills, because it requires a denial of reason when engaging the faith, and leading to intellectual suicide:
The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life. It can deceive these people, offering them interpretations that are pious but illusory, instead of telling them that the Bible does not necessarily contain an immediate answer to each and every problem. Without saying as much in so many words, fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. It injects into life a false certitude, for it unwittingly confuses the divine substance of the biblical message with what are in fact its human limitations.[13]
No wonder St Mark the Ascetic warned us to be careful when we interpreted Scripture. He understood how people would confuse the human side of Scripture with its divine meaning, and how that would end up creating a false, humanly constructed, image of God. A God presented in the image of fallen humanity can only be a monster, the monster which we see proclaimed by fundamentalists the world over.
Footnotes
[1] Mark the Monk, On the Spiritual Law in Counsels on the Spiritual Life. Trans. Tim Vivian and Augustine Casiday (Crestwood, NY: St Vladimirs Seminary Press, 2009), 93.
[2] Pope Benedict, Regensburg Lecture, Sept 12, 2006.
[3] Richard R. Gaillardetz, Teaching with Authority: A Theology of the Magisterium of the Church (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1997), 84.
[4] Dei Verbum 15 (Vatican Translation).
[5] Now the sons of Rimmon the Beerothite, Rechab and Baanah, set out, and about the heat of the day they came to the house of Ishbosheth, as he was taking his noonday rest. And behold, the doorkeeper of the house had been cleaning wheat, but she grew drowsy and slept; so Rechab and Baanah his brother slipped in. When they came into the house, as he lay on his bed in his bedchamber, they smote him, and slew him, and beheaded him. They took his head, and went by the way of the Arabah all night, and brought the head of Ishbosheth to David at Hebron. And they said to the king, Here is the head of Ishbosheth, the son of Saul, your enemy, who sought your life; the LORD has avenged my lord the king this day on Saul and on his offspring (2 Sam 4:5-8 RSV).
[6] St Neilos the Ascetic, Ascetic Discourse in The Philokalia. Volume I. Trans. And ed. By G.E.H. Palmer, Philip Sherrard and Kallistos Ware (London: Faber and Faber, 1983), 210.
[7] Origen, On First Principles in ANF(4), 364.
[8] Pontifical Biblical Commission, The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church (March 18, 1994), III-B.2
[9] St Edith Stein, Ways to know God in Knowledge and Faith. Trans. Walter Redmond (Washington, DC: ICS Publications, 2000), 103.
[10] Pontifical Biblical Commission, The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church, I-F.
[11] Ibid.
[12] Ibid.
[13] Ibid.
NONSENSE.
We are just reading Scripture straightforwardly.
We are refusing to allow anything less than Scripture to tarnish Scripture.
What . . . 99.8% of the Mary stuff was created out of whole cloth—fantasies foisted on the gullible or the power mongers by hell itself.
Y’all can rationalize and shuck and jive and try and stretch rubberized Scriptures to cover the nakedness of the idolatry and blasphemy until Jesus Comes again . . . Trashing HIS WORD in favor of !!!!TRADITIONS!!!! of man is not a good way to get on His good side.
Of course this is all bunk but what's interesting is that the author went against the grain and did not capitalize the little c in the word church...And we all know that you guys always write (C)hurch...
A whole lotta deception here because it makes the erroneous claim that the fundamentalists do not acknowledge that the church is founded on the Bible when in fact, it is YOUR 'Church' that fundamentalists claim is not found in scripture, execpt in the Pharaisical, or Pagan sense...
The church is the biblical and fundamentalist Christian church...The 'Church' is your religion's traditional concoction...
WHICH . . . is another brazen
DEMONSTRATION of Roman Catholic et al idolatry pure and simple:
And such folks seem to think we should trust them with as much as the time of day. Incredible.
What you claim the Nestorians believed may, or may not be factual...But one thing we do know is that they rejected your popes and because of that, you have branded them heretics...
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
So let's see here...God was manifest in the flesh...Is God still in the flesh??? What's the scripture say??? It says He was...
Oh, and BTW, here's another verse that says Jesus is God...
Oh no...I don't believe you said that...Upon this rock I will build my church
You've got to be kidding...
And when you suggest that we trust the Church more than the Holy Spirit I would respond that trusting one is trusting the other. God doesn't work against Himself. In the First Council in Jerusalem the Church responded "the Holy Spirit and we have decided..." The Church cannot be separated from the Spirit as we have the promises of Christ to the contrary.
Nicea is clear.
Nope...You can not read and BELIEVE the scriptures not knowing Jesus is God...It's plain as day...
The problem is unbelief...You read it but don't believe it...
And it has nothing to do with basic Christian dogma...I mean look at your Catholic dogma...For the most part it's certainly NOT Bible dogma...
But there's one thing you guys all have in common...You have to change scripture to get it to tilt towards your dogma...
Negative. You are simply antiCatholic; the evidence is that you band together with folks that are as opposite to your snake handlers as the Hindus are to the Moslems.
We Catholics tell you that this means that Jesus is God. Scripture by itself does not tell you that. Scripture by itself is inherently subordinationalist. I don't know why you kick against that so much, since your posts on FR are largely subordinationalist.
God is manifest in the flesh does not mean that Jesus is God, all by itself. God is manifest in all believers. Does that mean that we are all God?
EQUATING
A HUMAN ORGANIZATION
WITH HOLY SPIRIT IS
RANK BLASPHEMY AS WELL AS IDOLATRY.
GOD HAVE MERCY.
The delusion that the Vatican organization
equals the Body of Christ
is horrific in itself . . . as well as rubber history and rubber Bible and rubber dictionary.
Just because you don't believe or understand the scripture certainly does not mean it's not true...
Jesus said He wouldn't be with you after the end of the age...You don't believe it??? That's not the scripture's problem, it's yours...
Your pope implying that the scripture says something that it clearly does not say is NOT the framework for accurate interpretation...
And there are other Christian writings that indicate (with as much surety as your story) that Joseph was young...So young and feminine looking that he was often mistaken as Jesus' brother, and sister...
You do realize that the Douay Rheims Bible is, although a faithful rendition of the Latin Vulgate, is not authorized for use in the public liturgical life of the Church. The two versions that are authorized are the RSV and the NAB (both from the Greek, not from the Latin). Since you have "have priests and nuns in my family," I would have thought you'd know that.
The NAB, which is the version used in the American Church, says the following for Matthew 3:1-2 (with footnotes):
1 1 2 In those days John the Baptist appeared, preaching in the desert of Judea 2 (and) saying, "Repent, 3 for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"
Footnotes:
1 [1] Unlike Luke, Matthew says nothing of the Baptist's origins and does not make him a relative of Jesus. The desert of Judea: the barren region west of the Dead Sea extending up the Jordan valley.
2 [1-12] Here Matthew takes up the order of Jesus' ministry found in the gospel of Mark, beginning with the preparatory preaching of John the Baptist.
3 [2] Repent: the Baptist calls for a change of heart and conduct, a turning of one's life from rebellion to obedience towards God. The kingdom of heaven is at hand: "heaven" (literally, "the heavens") is a substitute for the name "God" that was avoided by devout Jews of the time out of reverence. The expression "the kingdom of heaven" occurs only in the gospel of Matthew. It means the effective rule of God over his people. In its fullness it includes not only human obedience to God's word, but the triumph of God over physical evils, supremely over death. In the expectation found in Jewish apocalyptic, the kingdom was to be ushered in by a judgment in which sinners would be condemned and perish, an expectation shared by the Baptist. This was modified in Christian understanding where the kingdom was seen as being established in stages, culminating with the parousia of Jesus.
By the way, the Latin from where the D-R made its translation is: paenitentiam (repentance, penitence)
Of course, your point was to talk about the difference between repentance and penance. I would submit that there is a minimal difference between the two words, if any. Have you considered the etimology of the words "μετάνοια" or "μετανοέω"? If you break it down it means against your thoughts. To change your thought patterns.
I think we would agree that this is the most basic definition of repentence (formally defined as "heartfelt sorrow with the firm purpose of sinning no more"). The bottom line is that you've got to change your mind. As St. Paul put it: Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
But do you realize that this is also the basic definition of the virtue of penance?
The Catholic Encyclopedia has the following to say about it:
Penance here is a supernatural moral virtue whereby the sinner is disposed to hatred of his sin as an offence against God and to a firm purpose of amendment and satisfaction. The principal act in the exercise of this virtue is the detestation of sin, not of sin in general nor of that which others commit, but of one's own sin. The motive of this detestation is that sin offends God: to regret evil deeds on account of the mental or physical suffering the social loss, or the action of human justice which they entail, is natural; but such sorrow does not suffice for penance. On the other hand, the resolve to amend, while certainly necessary, is not sufficient of itself, i.e., without hatred for sin already committed; such a resolve, in fact, would be meaningless; it would profess obedience to God's law in the future while disregarding the claims of God's justice in the matter of past transgression.
One question for you: back in the dim, dark days when you were Catholic, did anybody ever try to teach you about the concept of "interior penance?"
I ask this because this is really a subject that I had to teach my daughter myself, as it wasn't really discussed all that much in her religion classes in school. It wouldn't surprise me if you had never heard of the concept.
Having said that, it actually takes up a fairly significant portion of the 1997 Catechism (you may have never had the blessing of having that book available to you before you left the Faith):
III. THE CONVERSION OF THE BAPTIZED
1427 Jesus calls to conversion. This call is an essential part of the proclamation of the kingdom: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel."16 In the Church's preaching this call is addressed first to those who do not yet know Christ and his Gospel. Also, Baptism is the principal place for the first and fundamental conversion. It is by faith in the Gospel and by Baptism17 that one renounces evil and gains salvation, that is, the forgiveness of all sins and the gift of new life.
1428 Christ's call to conversion continues to resound in the lives of Christians. This second conversion is an uninterrupted task for the whole Church who, "clasping sinners to her bosom, [is] at once holy and always in need of purification, [and] follows constantly the path of penance and renewal."18 This endeavor of conversion is not just a human work. It is the movement of a "contrite heart," drawn and moved by grace to respond to the merciful love of God who loved us first.19
1429 St. Peter's conversion after he had denied his master three times bears witness to this. Jesus' look of infinite mercy drew tears of repentance from Peter and, after the Lord's resurrection, a threefold affirmation of love for him.20 The second conversion also has a communitarian dimension, as is clear in the Lord's call to a whole Church: "Repent!"21
- St. Ambrose says of the two conversions that, in the Church, "there are water and tears: the water of Baptism and the tears of repentance."22
IV. INTERIOR PENANCE
1430 Jesus' call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, "sackcloth and ashes," fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.23
1431 Interior repentance is a radical reorientation of our whole life, a return, a conversion to God with all our heart, an end of sin, a turning away from evil, with repugnance toward the evil actions we have committed. At the same time it entails the desire and resolution to change one's life, with hope in God's mercy and trust in the help of his grace. This conversion of heart is accompanied by a salutary pain and sadness which the Fathers called animi cruciatus (affliction of spirit) and compunctio cordis (repentance of heart).24
1432 The human heart is heavy and hardened. God must give man a new heart.25 Conversion is first of all a work of the grace of God who makes our hearts return to him: "Restore us to thyself, O LORD, that we may be restored!"26 God gives us the strength to begin anew. It is in discovering the greatness of God's love that our heart is shaken by the horror and weight of sin and begins to fear offending God by sin and being separated from him. The human heart is converted by looking upon him whom our sins have pierced:27
- Let us fix our eyes on Christ's blood and understand how precious it is to his Father, for, poured out for our salvation it has brought to the whole world the grace of repentance.
1433 Since Easter, the Holy Spirit has proved "the world wrong about sin,"29 i.e., proved that the world has not believed in him whom the Father has sent. But this same Spirit who brings sin to light is also the Consoler who gives the human heart grace for repentance and conversion.30
10 Gal 3:27.
11 1 Jn 1:8.
12 Cf. Lk 11:4; Mt 6:12.
13 Eph 1:4; 5:27.
14 Cf. Council of Trent (1546): DS 1515.
15 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1545; LG 40.
16 Mk 1:15.
17 Cf. Acts 2:38.
18 LG 8 § 3.
19 Ps 51:17; cf. Jn 6:44; 12:32; 1 Jn 4:10.
20 Cf. Lk 22:61; Jn 21:15-17.
21 Rev 2:5,16.
22 St. Ambrose, ep. 41,12:PL 16,1116.
23 Cf. Joel 2:12-13; Isa 1:16-17; Mt 6:1-6; 16-18.
24 Cf. Council Of Trent (1551): DS 1676-1678; 1705; Cf. Roman Catechism, II,V,4.
25 Cf. Ezek 36:26-27.
26 Lam 5:21.
27 Cf. Jn 19:37; Zech 12:10.
28 St. Clement Of Rome, Ad Cor. 7,4:PG 1,224.
29 Cf. Jn 16:8-9.
30 Cf. Jn 15:26; Acts 2:36-38; John Paul II, DeV 27-48.
You finish your post saying,
And this is only one example. Penance is basing your salvation on works. There is no need for penance. The punishment for our sin was taken by Christ on the cross. There is no need for any more.
One last thing on works: if our repentance was something that was initiated by us, then that would be Pelagianism. It would be us achieving our own righteousness by our own works. God first gives us the grace to believe, then we act on it:
153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come "from flesh and blood", but from "my Father who is in heaven".24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"25
24 Mt 16:17; cf. Gal 1:15; Mt 11:25.
25 DV 5; cf. DS 377; 3010.
(Though I recognize that this is not always the case due to poor catechesis) Catholics believe that our salvation is by grace. Just to make sure we're clear on that point.
I hope the above discourse describes the doctrine of the Catholic Church better than you apparently received when you were a Catholic. As far as how you were taught or what you were taught, I have no idea. But I have given you lengthy quotes from authoritative documents. Whether you agree with them or not is really a matter between you and God and is not my concern. I just wanted to make sure that you have been provided, not FReeper markomalley's opinion on the subject, but the authoritative doctrine of the Church on it.
I hope God's blesses you abundantly this weekend.
Interesting. Do you have a source for these writings?
Apparently you have no understanding of scripture outside of what your religion tells you...
So when scripture says 'I and the Father are one', that doesn't really mean that Jesus is God??? Or it does but you and I can't understand that except your Church tells us so???
What is it, hypnotism??? Is that how they get you to believe this stuff???
And when Jesus says 'I am the way, the truth and the life', that you and I can't possibly grasp that concept except your religion provides its private interpretation???
I'd suggest you get as far away from that religion as you possibly can, pronto...
Agreed! I got to that part and knew the rest was just...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!!! It IS awful convenient to proclaim only the One, True Church of Christ is authorized to say what Scripture says AND then to say, "Well! Whaddaya know...WE ARE THAT CHURCH!!!
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