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Avoid Intellectual Suicide: Do Not Interpret the Bible Like a Fundamentalist
Vox Nova ^ | May 14,2 010 | Henry Karlson

Posted on 05/14/2010 11:03:45 AM PDT by NYer

Holy Scripture, despite all appearances, will not always be easy to interpret. We can be lulled into thinking our “common sense” and “by the letter” interpretation of a text is what God intends us to get out of it. However, if this is the case, there would be little to no debates about its meaning; there would be little confusion as to its purpose and how it applies to us today. St. Peter would not have needed to tell us that no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted privately, because all interpretations of Scripture would end up the same. We need to understand and heed the warning of St. Mark the Ascetic: “Do not let your heart become conceited about your interpretations of Scripture, lest your intellect fall afoul for the spirit of blasphemy.” [1] Why would he be warning us of this? Because Scripture, in its most external, simplistic level, could easily lead people to a perverted understanding of God and the Christian faith.

For an interpretation of Scripture to be acceptable (which does not mean it is necessarily correct), it must at least conform to the basic dogmatic teachings of the Church. If God is love, this must be manifest from one’s understanding of Scripture. If one’s interpretation of a text would lead to God doing or commanding something which runs against the law of love, the law by which God himself acts, then one has indeed committed blasphemy. If one really believes God commands some intrinsic evil, such as genocide, one has abandoned the God who is love, and has at least committed unintentional blasphemy by something evil about him. One cannot get out of this by saying, “whatever God wills, is now good,” or that “the very nature of right and wrong has changed through time,” because both would contradict not only the fundamental character of love, but also the fact God has provided us a positive means by which we can understand something of him via analogy; we know what love is, we know what the good is, and therefore we know something about God when we see he is love or that he is good. While we must understand our concepts are limited in relation to God, it is not because God is less than our concepts, but more and their foundation. Thus, Pope Benedict wisely says:

In contrast with the so-called intellectualism of Augustine and Thomas, there arose with Duns Scotus a voluntarism which, in its later developments, led to the claim that we can only know God’s voluntas ordinata. Beyond this is the realm of God’s freedom, in virtue of which he could have done the opposite of everything he has actually done. This gives rise to positions which clearly approach those of Ibn Hazm and might even lead to the image of a capricious God, who is not even bound to truth and goodness. God’s transcendence and otherness are so exalted that our reason, our sense of the true and good, are no longer an authentic mirror of God, whose deepest possibilities remain eternally unattainable and hidden behind his actual decisions. As opposed to this, the faith of the Church has always insisted that between God and us, between his eternal Creator Spirit and our created reason there exists a real analogy, in which – as the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 stated – unlikeness remains infinitely greater than likeness, yet not to the point of abolishing analogy and its language. God does not become more divine when we push him away from us in a sheer, impenetrable voluntarism; rather, the truly divine God is the God who has revealed himself as logos and, as logos, has acted and continues to act lovingly on our behalf. Certainly, love, as Saint Paul says, “transcends” knowledge and is thereby capable of perceiving more than thought alone (cf. Eph 3:19); nonetheless it continues to be love of the God who is Logos. Consequently, Christian worship is, again to quote Paul – “λογικη λατρεία”, worship in harmony with the eternal Word and with our reason (cf. Rom 12:1).[2]

Christianity affirms both the transcendence and immanence of God. The second allows us to say something positive and true about God, while the first reminds us that positive assertions are limited, that they are at best analogous pointers to something beyond the statements themselves. Our teachings truly say something about God. They must be used as the guideline by which we read Scripture. Moreover, as the Church makes abundantly clear, Scripture is itself an ecclesial document, to be interpreted in and by the Church. It must be interpreted in such a way that dogmatic teachings about God (such as his unchanging goodness) are in accord with our understanding of Scriptural text. If reason suggests a disconnect between an interpretation and dogma, we must follow dogma and dismiss the interpretation. Richard Gaillardetz explains this well:

The apostolic witness would be preserved both in the canonical Scriptures and in the ongoing paradosis or handing on of the apostolic faith in the Christian community. The unity of Scripture and tradition is grounded then in the one word whose presence in human history comes to its unsurpassable actualization in Jesus Christ. Scripture and tradition must be viewed as interrelated witnesses to that word. Furthermore, neither Scripture nor tradition can be separated from the Church. The unity of Scripture, tradition and the living communion of the Church itself is fundamental.[3]

Revelation, therefore, is centered upon Jesus Christ – and through Christ, the whole of the Holy Trinity:

The principal purpose to which the plan of the old covenant was directed was to prepare for the coming of Christ, the redeemer of all and of the messianic kingdom, to announce this coming by prophecy (see Luke 24:44; John 5:39; 1 Peter 1:10), and to indicate its meaning through various types (see 1 Cor. 10:12). Now the books of the Old Testament, in accordance with the state of mankind before the time of salvation established by Christ, reveal to all men the knowledge of God and of man and the ways in which God, just and merciful, deals with men. These books, though they also contain some things which are incomplete and temporary, nevertheless show us true divine pedagogy.[4]

If the vision of God that one gets out of Scripture is not one which reveals his justice and mercy, the reader of the text has missed something about the text itself. Perhaps the mistake lies in their interpretive scheme, where they assume the text follows the contours of modern historical writings. This is not the case; indeed Christians since the beginning of Church history have understood a very different scheme for the Biblical text: one which presents a kind of history but uses that history to present a deeper, more fundamental understanding of the world. Texts which are seen as impossible, if interpreted as history, nonetheless must be accepted, not because they are historical, but because they reveal something theological. St. Neilos the Ascetic, for example, takes 2 Samuel 4:5-8[5] as being historically absurd. This, he thinks, should be obvious. But if this is the case, does it make the text meaningless? By no means:

It is clear that this story in Scripture should not be taken literally. For how could a king have a woman as door-keeper, when he ought properly to be guarded by a troop of soldiers, and to have round him a large body of attendants? Or how could he be so poor as to use her to winnow the wheat? But improbable details are often included in a story because of the deeper truths they signify. Thus the intellect in each of us resides within like a king, while the reason acts as door-keeper of the senses. When the reason occupies itself with bodily things – and to winnow wheat is something bodily – he enemy without difficulty slips past unnoticed and slays the intellect.[6]

This scheme was in accord with what Origen taught. Indeed, he believed that the writers were inspired to put in statements which were absurd so as to remind us not to take the text so simply, but to look for the deeper, spiritual nourishment we can get from them, even for those texts which also have a real historical basis:

But since, if the usefulness of the legislation, and the sequence and beauty of the history, were universally evident of itself, we should not believe that any other thing could be understood in the Scriptures save what was obvious, the word of God has arranged that certain stumbling-blocks, as it were, and offenses, and impossibili­ties, should be introduced into the midst of the law and the history, in order that we may not, through being drawn away in all directions by the merely attractive na­ture of the language, either altogether fall away from the (true) doctrines, as learn­ing nothing worthy of God, or, by not departing from the letter, come to the knowledge of nothing more divine. And this also we must know, that the principal aim being to announce the spiritual connection in those things that are done, and that ought to be done, where the Word found that things done according to the history could be adapted to these mystical senses, He made use of them, concealing from the multitude the deeper meaning; but where, in the narrative of the develop­ment of super-sensual things, there did not follow the performance of those certain events, which was already indicated by the mystical meaning, the Scripture interwove in the history (the account of) some event that did not take place, sometimes what could not have happened; sometimes what could, but did not. And sometimes a few words are interpolated which are not true in their literal acceptation, and sometimes a larger number.[7]

Scripture, of course, was written by various people. While they were inspired by God to write what they wrote, and God inspired the Church to collect the texts it did, in the form it did, we must also understand that the people behind the texts are not mere puppets being forced by God to write as they did. Thus, when patristic authors, or the Church, asserts God as the author of the text, we must not take this as fundamentalists do, but rather recognize that God works with authors based upon their ability and through their cooperation with his intended purposes: “The fathers look upon the Bible above all as the Book of God, the single work of a single author. This does not mean, however, that they reduce the human authors to nothing more than passive instruments; they are quite capable, also, of according to a particular book its own specific purpose.”[8] Indeed, God can inspires people to reveal something about him without their knowing of it, or knowing the meaning behind their words, as St Edith Stein masterfully explains:

Must the inspired person who is the instrument of a divine revelation be aware of the fact? Must he know that he has been illuminated, must he himself have received a revelation? We may well imagine cases where none of this is true. It is not impossible that someone utter a revelation without realizing it, without having received a revelation from God, without even being aware that he is speaking in God’s name or feeling supported by God’s Spirit in what he says and how he says it. He may think he is only voicing his own insight and in the words of his choosing.

Thus Caiphas says in the Sanhedrin : ‘You know nothing and do not consider that it is better for you that one man die for the people and not the whole people parish.’ And John adds: ‘but his he said not of himself but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the people…’ Hence Caiphas spoke in God’s name and followed divine instructions without either knowing it or wishing to do so. John, however, knows that Caiphas was speaking God’s word and perhaps that he was himself enlightened by God as he wrote this. Does John know the prophetic meaning of Caiphas’ words through a revelation accorded him? Quite possibly. But it may also be that the fulfillment of those words in the death of Jesus and John’s view of the overall work of salvation made him realize their prophetic nature.[9]

Now this is not to say it is the norm, nor common, but, as we see, a person inspired by God does not have to understand the meaning of their words, nor that they are actually saying something that will be collected together as being inspired by God. The intention of God as the inspired author of Scripture does not have to be one with the intended meaning of the human author, and indeed, could be one which runs contrary to what such a human might have thought (as, for example, we find in the case of Jonah).

Thus, it is important to discuss inspiration, but as the Pontifical Biblical Commission warns us, we must not follow the simplistic interpretation found within fundamentalism:

Fundamentalism is right to insist on the divine inspiration of the Bible, the inerrancy of the word of God and other biblical truths included in its five fundamental points. But its way of presenting these truths is rooted in an ideology which is not biblical, whatever the proponents of this approach might say. For it demands an unshakable adherence to rigid doctrinal points of view and imposes, as the only source of teaching for Christian life and salvation, a reading of the Bible which rejects all questioning and any kind of critical research.[10]

And, it is especially when people take the Bible as history where this becomes the problem. “Fundamentalism also places undue stress upon the inerrancy of certain details in the biblical texts, especially in what concerns historical events or supposedly scientific truth.”[11] It creates a false, blasphemous view of God through its simplistic understanding of the text, and demand adherence to that simplistic view, with the explanation that if one denies this scheme, one must reject Scripture itself. There is no basis by which one can understand the deeper, spiritual value of revelation. And it is for this reason it ends up creating an evil-looking God, and promotes the acceptance of intrinsic evils such as racism or genocide as being good if and when God commanded them. “Fundamentalism likewise tends to adopt very narrow points of view. It accepts the literal reality of an ancient, out-of-date cosmology simply because it is found expressed in the Bible; this blocks any dialogue with a broader way of seeing the relationship between culture and faith. Its relying upon a non-critical reading of certain texts of the Bible serves to reinforce political ideas and social attitudes that are marked by prejudices—racism, for example—quite contrary to the Christian Gospel.”[12] While simple, it is this simplicity which leads to a letter that kills, because it requires a denial of reason when engaging the faith, and leading to “intellectual suicide”:

The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life. It can deceive these people, offering them interpretations that are pious but illusory, instead of telling them that the Bible does not necessarily contain an immediate answer to each and every problem. Without saying as much in so many words, fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. It injects into life a false certitude, for it unwittingly confuses the divine substance of the biblical message with what are in fact its human limitations.[13]

No wonder St Mark the Ascetic warned us to be careful when we interpreted Scripture. He understood how people would confuse the human side of Scripture with its divine meaning, and how that would end up creating a false, humanly constructed, image of God. A God presented in the image of fallen humanity can only be a monster, the monster which we see proclaimed by fundamentalists the world over.

Footnotes

[1] Mark the Monk, “On the Spiritual Law” in Counsels on the Spiritual Life. Trans. Tim Vivian and Augustine Casiday (Crestwood, NY: St Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 2009), 93.

[2] Pope Benedict, Regensburg Lecture, Sept 12, 2006.

[3] Richard R. Gaillardetz, Teaching with Authority: A Theology of the Magisterium of the Church (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1997), 84.

[4] Dei Verbum 15 (Vatican Translation).

[5]“ Now the sons of Rimmon the Beerothite, Rechab and Baanah, set out, and about the heat of the day they came to the house of Ishbosheth, as he was taking his noonday rest. And behold, the doorkeeper of the house had been cleaning wheat, but she grew drowsy and slept; so Rechab and Baanah his brother slipped in. When they came into the house, as he lay on his bed in his bedchamber, they smote him, and slew him, and beheaded him. They took his head, and went by the way of the Arabah all night, and brought the head of Ishbosheth to David at Hebron. And they said to the king, ‘Here is the head of Ishbosheth, the son of Saul, your enemy, who sought your life; the LORD has avenged my lord the king this day on Saul and on his offspring’” (2 Sam 4:5-8 RSV).

[6] St Neilos the Ascetic, “Ascetic Discourse” in The Philokalia. Volume I. Trans. And ed. By G.E.H. Palmer, Philip Sherrard and Kallistos Ware (London: Faber and Faber, 1983), 210.

[7] Origen, “On First Principles” in ANF(4), 364.

[8] Pontifical Biblical Commission, The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church (March 18, 1994), III-B.2

[9] St Edith Stein, “Ways to know God” in Knowledge and Faith. Trans. Walter Redmond (Washington, DC: ICS Publications, 2000), 103.

[10] Pontifical Biblical Commission, The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church, I-F.

[11] Ibid.

[12] Ibid.

[13] Ibid.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; History; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: apologetics; bible; catholic; fundamentalist; religiousleft; religiousright; scripture; seminary
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To: wagglebee

If a cult is not going to accept the clear teaching and words of Jesus as to His divinity, they are not going to accept it if He said it the way you think would be clearer.

They’re not not accepting Jesus being God because it’s not presented clearly enough in Scripture by Jesus Himself or anyone else for that matter, they’re rejecting it because they don’t WANT to believe it.


101 posted on 05/14/2010 2:07:10 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: NYer

OK.. one last time. You posted this long article, started this long thread then disappear.. come back and answer the question, or quit posting...

Here’s the question again..

I didn’t say that you are stupid or ignorant. I said you were ignorant of Church history. Which you seem to prove by failing to address the issues and seeking to say I called you names. The church of the Middle East (Iraq, Syria, Persia, and etc) descended directly from the original Jerusalem church (from the Fundementalist/Pentecostal book of Acts) continued functioning until the time of the later Crusades. The so-called Roman Church was divided when the Roman Empire divided into East and West. So, which one of these three was “the Church”. The Roman Church only gained prominence because of Politics and Secular Power. Jesus has always had His ‘true Church’ of ‘true disciples and believers’ among almost every church. Here’s betting you really can’t answer this post.


102 posted on 05/14/2010 2:08:27 PM PDT by theoldmarine (can you say SARAPHOBIA)
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To: SumProVita

‘The Church’ as in the body of Christ or the ‘The Church’ as in an organized religion? I don’t let anyone interpret Scripture for me. One can look at many sources of interpretations and come up with one’s own conclusions about what is correct, with the aid of prayer and the Holy Spirit.


103 posted on 05/14/2010 2:09:52 PM PDT by ReneeLynn (Socialism is SO yesterday. Fascism, it*s the new black. Mmm Mmm Mmm.)
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To: metmom
Yes, I bring reality to bear when interpreting Scripture, as I think that the reality that God created trumps interpretation of physical reality based upon Scripture.

This is the only mechanism whereby the Christian worldview shed the incorrect notion that scripture demanded or implied that the Earth was the center and that the Sun circled around it.

Without such a mechanism of interpreting Scripture in light of reality, one may as well think that when God speaks of taking the Earth ‘by its four corners’ that the Earth actually HAS four corners.

104 posted on 05/14/2010 2:09:55 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: metmom
That does explain a lot the misapplication of Scripture verses to justify Catholic doctrine. For Roman Catholics, their doctrine is the standard by which everything is measured, not the truth of God's word. That's putting the cart before the horse.

A perfect example of that is the interpretation of the verse which refer to Jesus' brothers and sisters, even to the point of naming His brothers. Since Catholics are so determined to have Mary having been perpetually a virgin, for some unknown reason, then any of the verses referring to Jesus brothers and sisters, must be adjusted to mean something besides what they read to mean.

Allow me please to offer a real world example of why I think your interpretation of these verses fails.

1. My father has a sister. She is my aunt, and she has the same parents as my father.

2. My father's mother gave birth to only one child.

The bible speaks of our Lord's brothers and sisters, but it never says how many children his mother had beyond himself. If you insist that the term "brothers and sisters" must mean that Mary had more children, then you would equally have to insist that my Nana had more than one child too, because my father undoubtedly has a sister. But she did not. My Nana gave birth to only one child.

I think it is very interesting too that one of the verses used to promote this idea that Mary had more children is from Matthew, and in it is said "Is this not the carpenter's son?" This should remind us that these words, and the idea of what a family is, were born out of real life and not theological christological arguments. In real life there are more ways people can be brothers and sisters than having the same biological mother. Yes, Jesus had brothers and sisters, but he was also the carpenter's son.

105 posted on 05/14/2010 2:13:47 PM PDT by cothrige
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To: cothrige
Jesus had brothers and sisters and they are named.

Matthew 13:54-57 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

The question I asked earlier is still unanswered.

Why is it so important to Catholics that Mary had always remained a virgin? What difference would it have made if she hadn't?

106 posted on 05/14/2010 2:18:45 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: cothrige

Your post... “Allow me please to offer a real world example of why I think your interpretation of these verses fails.

1. My father has a sister. She is my aunt, and she has the same parents as my father.

2. My father’s mother gave birth to only one child. and blah, blah, and blah...”

My reply... you will go to any lengths to defend your Maryolatry. Let’s say she didn’t have other children (let’s just say)... Do you still insist that she is the ‘perpetual virgin’? Scripture plainly says that Joseph didn’t ‘know her’ carnally until after Jesus was born. Why point that out if he ‘never’ knew her? How about the ‘assumption of Mary’. Do you also subscribe to that even though it didn’t become official, but un-biblical, ‘doctrine until the 1950’s? Or the “immaculate conception’ of her who called the Son she was to bear her ‘savior’? Only sinners need a savior.

Well, I was a Catholic (til I knew better), and I still love the tongues speaking, humble woman, who sat with the other 120 believers in the upper room with no place of prominence, barely a mention. It was probably because of her humility and reverence for deity that she was chosen, not because of her ‘sin-lessness’ and ‘near-deity’ that you project upon her. I believe she is immensely insulted by every ‘hail mary’ ever prayed.


107 posted on 05/14/2010 2:26:17 PM PDT by theoldmarine (can you say SARAPHOBIA)
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To: cothrige

You know, I’m still not done with you... Don’t you realize that the ‘false mary’ you ‘venerate’ and call the ‘Queen of Heaven’, the ‘co-mediatrix’, and on, and on.. didn’t even receive a mention in the New Testament or barely in the Anti-Nicene Fathers. She was a late invention of a compromised clergy to ameliorate the hurt feelings of the worshipers of Dianna, Astarte, and etc...

Nothing personal, just can’t help being upset at an organization that having thrown away the truth deludes and deceives so many... This ‘goddess worship’ is just one example. Why does Catholocism need so many apologists if there is nothing to apologize for?


108 posted on 05/14/2010 2:34:42 PM PDT by theoldmarine (can you say SARAPHOBIA)
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To: theoldmarine
"you will go to any lengths to defend your Maryolatry." <> Cool, what religion do you have to practice to know the disposition of another heart of hearts? Your powers are almost godlike.
109 posted on 05/14/2010 2:35:50 PM PDT by conservonator (How many times? 7X70!)
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To: theoldmarine

I said she wasn’t mentioned in the New Testament, wrong. She isn’t mentioned in the New Testament outside of the Gospels and the first chapters of Acts where she receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.


110 posted on 05/14/2010 2:36:49 PM PDT by theoldmarine (can you say SARAPHOBIA)
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To: conservonator

Another ad hominem attack rather than dealing with the issue. Read my posts. I don’t claim to know his heart, just his false doctrine.


111 posted on 05/14/2010 2:38:04 PM PDT by theoldmarine (can you say SARAPHOBIA)
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To: theoldmarine

Ok... the oldmarine signing off. the ‘conservanator’ (whatever that is) and ‘nyer’ refuse to come back and deal with Scripture and sound arguments. When they are caught out they have no response except to claim to be ‘insulted’. The Word of God is a sword (the sword of the spirit), and Iron sharpens Iron. Don’t bring a rosary to a sword fight.
semper fi


112 posted on 05/14/2010 2:51:57 PM PDT by theoldmarine (can you say SARAPHOBIA)
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To: theoldmarine
Don’t bring a rosary to a sword fight.

LOL!

113 posted on 05/14/2010 3:01:09 PM PDT by James C. Bennett
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To: dinoparty
This is one of the best posts on scriptural interpretation that I have seen in a long time.

It's a bit lengthy but, as you commented, an excellent scriptural analysis. Notice the responses from the fundamentalists ;-)

114 posted on 05/14/2010 3:22:50 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer

Must we? :)


115 posted on 05/14/2010 3:24:21 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer; wideawake
Thank G-d I'm no longer in the Catholic Church!

Catholics whine about liberals and then attack Funamentalist Protestants for "doctrinal rigidity." Now there's something for you.

BTW, this is anti-Fundamentalist Protestant bigotry. Not the "you're ee-vil and your going to heeellllllll!!!!!!!!!," but the implications that every Biblical Fundamentalist is a semi-retarded, inbred moron.

116 posted on 05/14/2010 3:27:47 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (LeShim`on, Shelumi'el Ben Tzurishadday.)
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To: theoldmarine; trisham
You posted this long article, started this long thread then disappear.. come back and answer the question, or quit posting...

Apologies ... I posted the thread during lunch break at work and have not been able to get back until now.

The church of the Middle East (Iraq, Syria, Persia, and etc) descended directly from the original Jerusalem church (from the Fundementalist/Pentecostal book of Acts) continued functioning until the time of the later Crusades. The so-called Roman Church was divided when the Roman Empire divided into East and West. So, which one of these three was “the Church”. The Roman Church only gained prominence because of Politics and Secular Power. Jesus has always had His ‘true Church’ of ‘true disciples and believers’ among almost every church. Here’s betting you really can’t answer this post.

The Church began in the East, as you have well noted. Jesus, His mother and the Apostles were all Jews.

Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 21 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes this nicely:

"From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them... Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity" (CCC no. 814).

Although there are 22 Churches, there are only eight "Rites" that are used among them. A Rite is a "liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony," (Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, canon 28). "Rite" best refers to the liturgical and disciplinary traditions used in celebrating the sacraments. Many Eastern Catholic Churches use the same Rite, although they are distinct autonomous Churches. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church are distinct Churches with their own hierarchies. Yet they both use the Byzantine Rite.

To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

The Vatican II Council declared that "all should realize it is of supreme importance to understand, venerate, preserve, and foster the exceedingly rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern churches, in order faithfully to preserve the fullness of Christian tradition" (Unitatis Redintegrato, 15).

A Roman rite Catholic may attend any Eastern Catholic Liturgy and fulfill his or her obligations at any Eastern Catholic Parish. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole. I am a Roman Catholic practicing my faith at a Maronite Catholic Church. Like the Chaldeans, the Maronites retain Aramaic for the Consecration. It is as close as one comes to being at the Last Supper.

Please freepmail me if you would like more information on the Eastern Catholic Churches.

117 posted on 05/14/2010 3:43:47 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer

:)


118 posted on 05/14/2010 3:45:42 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee
I am well aware of this, that is why Mormons don't deny that He is the Son of God, they just deny that He is God.

Not quite. We Mormons do not deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God or that He is God; we affirm both propositions. (Indeed, we believe that Jesus Christ was the Jehovah of the Old Testament, and that He created the heavens and the earth.)

However, we do not accept traditional Trinitarianism. That is, we believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate Beings.

119 posted on 05/14/2010 4:03:30 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: metmom
Jesus had brothers and sisters and they are named.

Matthew 13:54-57 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

Yes, the Lord had brothers and sisters, but why does that require that Mary was also their birth mother? My father has a sister, and his mother gave birth to only one child. Consider what that means. If having a brother and sister means that your mother has to have been the mother of all of them then my father's mother had to have given birth to two children. She did not. Brothers and sisters only refers to the relationship between Jesus and these other people, but it doesn't say anything about Mary's relationship to any of them. This verse also explicitly states that the Lord was the carpenter's son, and yet he was not. At least not as you insist he is a brother and sister to these people.

120 posted on 05/14/2010 4:09:24 PM PDT by cothrige
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