[Leoni]

Leoni: “Seems like God has chosen these Vatican II popes who are reluctant to teach clearly for fear of being rejected so that the world will not be further condemned for rejecting clear teachings.” ROE:I don’t know how you can make this statement without being able to support it with positive evidence.

Do they write clear? NOT! Is Vatican II clear? NOT! No conjecture there. God allowed them to be popes for our times as a punishment to those who would not listen even if they spoke clear.

Read any and all documents from Pius IX, Leo XIII, Pius X, Pius XII, Pius XII. Then read any and all from Vatican II, JPII, and B16. Even Humanae Vitae has birth control loopholes written ambiguously into it. Read Pius XI on the same subject, it's clear. It's all there for anyone to see, before John XXIII and after John XXIII, two different objectives in writing. One is up front teaching clear truths, the other is, unclear and verbose.

[Running On Empty]

I don’t have any common ground with you, because I can’t believe that God came down from heaven to tell you that He allowed them “to be popes for our times as a punishment....”.

Yes, I believe that there is conjecture there.