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To: annalex
For example, “this is my body” literally means the physical body. The opposite of that is allegorical, for example, “this is my body” really refers to my friends or relatives.

"This is my body" when referring to things other than ones literal body is allegorical usage - if I took a piece of bread and said "this is my body", that is allegorical usage - That is what Jesus did. "This is my body" can also be used in a spiritual sense, which Jesus also spoke about; "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." This was spoken in response to his allegorical reference of his body being food and his blood being drink - which his disciples said was a "hard teaching" if referring to his "literal body." Your allegorical use of "this is my body" being a reference to "my friends or relatives" is sort of ridiculous usage. You can do better than that :-)

The Church teches that the literal meaning is to be preferred unless the allegorical is clearly indicated by context.

Exactly, just as I said above about "this is my body."

“Literal” does not mean “morphological”. That words like priest or bishop have morphological origin in various ordinary ways to describe a leader of any kind, — even a leader of animals — does not mean they should not be used in the narrow technical sense in the Church.

Hmm...Salvation must have pinged you to explain something he/she couldn't do - is that right? Regardless, the terms used in the Bible do have literal meanings in the cases I cited about the terms presbuteros, episkopos, etc. They are used to describe the office of certain people. Explain, please, exactly what those verses and words mean that I bought out about the offices of the church in post #22. I sure would like to hear from you on that specifically! Ref: Acts 20:17, 27–28 and 1 Peter 5:1–2.

Good luck...

52 posted on 04/24/2010 3:03:47 PM PDT by Ken4TA (The truth hurts those who don't like truth!)
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To: Ken4TA
if I took a piece of bread and said "this is my body", that is allegorical usage

Only because you and I know that you are not God capable of working miracles. But in the case of Jesus and the Eucharist we also have John 6 where His body is said to be "food indeed". Further, if you were going to suffer and die and your words to me were, pointing at bread, "This is my body", I would at least have the courtesy, knowing you as a thoughtful person to assume you meant it literally and not joking around on a solemn moment like this. The Apostles did take Christ literally -- St. Paul, for example, considers "not discerning the body" in the Eucharistic bread a great sin, akin to spiritual death (1 Cor 11:23-30). The ideas that the Eucharist is merely a memorial meal with bread and maybe grape juice is a late invention, wholly outside of the Apostolic tradition.

Explain, please, exactly what those verses and words mean that I bought out about the offices of the church in post #22.

Why, you are correct that in Acts 20:17, 27–28 St Paul speaks of the holy office of the Episcopacy:

Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood (Act 20:28)

Was your point that priesthood was at the time not separated from episcopacy? That is correct also, -- the Church was not big enough to have preists who are not bishops. That is also clear from 1 Peter 5:

1 The ancients [πρεσβυτερους]therefore that are among you, I beseech, who am myself also an ancient [συμπρεσβυτερος], and a witness of the sufferings of Christ: as also a partaker of that glory which is to be revealed in time to come: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking care of it, not by constraint, but willingly, according to God: not for filthy lucre's sake, but voluntarily: 3 Neither as lording it over the clergy [κληρων], but being made a pattern of the flock from the heart. 4 And when the prince of pastors [αρχιποιμενος] shall appear, you shall receive a never fading crown of glory. 5 In like manner, ye young men, be subject to the ancients [πρεσβυτεροις]. And do you all insinuate humility one to another, for God resisteth the proud, but to the humble he giveth grace.

This speaks of the consecrated character of the priesthood, no? I love these verses too, this is why I am, glory be to God, Catholic.

59 posted on 04/24/2010 5:59:23 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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