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Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: The Eucharist: The Lord's Supper
CatholicApologetics.org ^ | 1985-1997 | Dr. Robert Schihl and Paul Flanagan

Posted on 04/22/2010 9:55:26 PM PDT by Salvation

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To: Ken4TA; srweaver
I will attempt to consolidate my responses to 195-197.

has to be reenacted

The Holy Mass is not a reenactment. It is "declaring the death of the Lord until He comes again" (1 Cor 11:26). That very sacrifice of our Lord is declared, -- or simply, shown -- to the celebrants.

where in that verse, in context with the rest of the passage, does it say that one has to be anything other than a Christian?

That passage doesn't. However, the First Mass was celebrated by none other than Jesus; then He told the twelve Apostles "do this" (Lk 22:19). In many places in the gospel the commandment to stand for Christ is given to select people but not to all (John 13:20, 20:21, Luke 10:16). The apostles have authority because they are sent by Christ: Romans 10:15, Acts 19:15. Further, restrictive rules of ordaining a priest are spelled out in Timothy and Titus. Surely anyone can reflect on the death of Jesus any time with or without a meal; but to confect the Eucharist is a faculty that is shown to be given the select few.

How in the world is that a "sacrifice"?

Death of the Lord is not sacrifice? St. Paul speaks in that passage of the body of the Lord, slain for our sin, present at the Altar. How would you describe it if not sacrifice.

the Bible never draws any distinction between the aspect of a person and the office he holds

The Holy Orders does indeed change the very soul of the consecrated person.

201 posted on 05/02/2010 7:05:03 AM PDT by annalex
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To: srweaver
expound Hebrews 9 from your knowledge of the Greek

Hebrews
  English: Douay-Rheims Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)
  Hebrews 9
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holies, every year with the blood of others: ουδ ινα πολλακις προσφερη εαυτον ωσπερ ο αρχιερευς εισερχεται εις τα αγια κατ ενιαυτον εν αιματι αλλοτριω
26 For then he ought to have suffered often from the beginning of the world: but now once at the end of ages, he hath appeared for the destruction of sin, by the sacrifice of himself. επει εδει αυτον πολλακις παθειν απο καταβολης κοσμου νυν δε απαξ επι συντελεια των αιωνων εις αθετησιν αμαρτιας δια της θυσιας αυτου πεφανερωται
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment: και καθ οσον αποκειται τοις ανθρωποις απαξ αποθανειν μετα δε τουτο κρισις
28 So also Christ was offered once to exhaust the sins of many; the second time he shall appear without sin to them that expect him unto salvation. ουτως και ο χριστος απαξ προσενεχθεις εις το πολλων ανενεγκειν αμαρτιας εκ δευτερου χωρις αμαρτιας οφθησεται τοις αυτον απεκδεχομενοις εις σωτηριαν

There is nothing here that is not adequately translated into English, as far as I can tell. What this chapter explains is that unlike in Judaism where sacrifices of anuimals were repeatedly made, in Christianity there is but one sacrifice offered by Christ; all these ritualistic sacrifices of sheep and pigeons are now rendered meaningless.

Your puzzlement comes (I presume) from the notion that the Holy Mass is some sort of repeated sacrifice which then would be in contradiction with this passage. The Mass however is not a repeated sacrifice but the very sacrifice of Golgotha. The Church was instructed to do as follows:

This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. 26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew [or declare] the death of the Lord, until he come. (1 Cor 11, following Luke 22)

As you can see there ss a commandment to "do this" and in fact, do this "often", but the Eucharist is never separated from the one, historical sacrifice of the Cross. What is changing from Mass to Mass is not the sacrifice but the celebrants as they are shown the sacrifice and given the Precious Body and Blood again and again, allowing the faithful to abide in Christ and Christ in them (John 14:4-7).

202 posted on 05/02/2010 7:25:27 AM PDT by annalex
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To: srweaver

A believer in the Holy Scripture, as he reads it, would be well advised to learn from it rather than fight it. So, in that spirit or reasoning faith of a Catholic, when I read Rev 12:6, I say to myself “Aha, so Mary fled into the wilderness that God had prepared for her”.

Why is this passage surprising to you? I admit that it could be read in two ways, as a reference to Mary’s travel to Ephesus to escape persecutions, or as an allusion to her Assumtion, and given the visionary genre of the book it probably should be read in those both senses simultaneously.


203 posted on 05/02/2010 7:31:43 AM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex

“He died only once, but he dies mystically and spiritually every time mass is offered.” John Hardon

Not LITERALLY, since His literal flesh and blood are SUPPOSEDLY present?

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Mass/Mass_008.htm

You can have your mysticism.


204 posted on 05/02/2010 8:23:12 AM PDT by srweaver (Never Forget the Judicial Homicide of Terri Schiavo)
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To: srweaver

So which part of the Gospel do you disagree with here? He died once; the Eucharist declares His death; and His body is present on the altar.


205 posted on 05/03/2010 5:06:06 AM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex

No, His body is nor present on your altars. His resurrected body, flesh and bone, by the way, not flesh and blood, is just that — resurrected. Jesus is no longer being offered, or “served up for dinner” according to your view.


206 posted on 05/03/2010 9:59:46 AM PDT by srweaver (Never Forget the Judicial Homicide of Terri Schiavo)
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To: srweaver
His body is nor present on your altars

That's contrary to what the scripture tells us.

207 posted on 05/03/2010 5:56:03 PM PDT by annalex
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