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To: Mad Dawg; Quix; Alex Murphy; 1000 silverlings; the_conscience; Dutchboy88; HarleyD; wmfights; ...
It IS good for us feelthy papists (and the Orthodox] to be challenged to say what is the difference between OT necromancy and praying to/with the saints who have died. What, in our account, changed on Easter Weekend with respect to the status of the dead.

The "difference" is that Christ appeared and what was alluded to in the Old Testament has come into time and the world in the flesh and performed the only sacrifice God will now accept for the sins of His children - His Son on the cross, now risen to prove it all true.

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." -- Acts 17:29-31

So the instruction is to pray to the Godhead alone. Not silver, not gold, and no one else, because God alone is our judge, according to the righteousness of Christ alone.

Further, Jesus Christ was specifically asked "how do we pray?

His response was not "you kneel to a woman or friends of mine and offer them your prayers."

"And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth..."

I assume you know the rest.

And finally, the Roman Catholic apologist is under the burden of disproving the above by showing us anywhere in the New Testament that Christ or any of His apostles tells us to pray to anyone but the Triune God alone.

2,272 posted on 04/27/2010 10:38:40 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you so very much for those beautiful Scriptures, dear sister in Christ, and thank you for sharing your insights!

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it]. - John 14:12-14

God's Name is I AM.

2,275 posted on 04/27/2010 10:54:25 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Natural Law; MarkBsnr; Judith Anne; Alamo-Girl; Mad Dawg; Quix; Alex Murphy; ...

I fail, at the very least, to see what good praying to someone else for what we are to pray only to God for, is going to do.

Do Catholics really think that God is not going to answer but some redeemed being is? Are they trying to get prayer answered that they are afraid that God won’t answer so they bypass Him?

If God is not going to grant the request for reasons that He alone knows, how is some dead person who is not God going to be able to do it?

When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray, He said,.....

Matthew 6: 9”This, then, is how you should pray:
“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

Just where is the admonition to pray to dead people, or even living people who have died and are in heaven?

For all the emphasis that the Catholics say they put on the gospels and the dissing for theology that they do to Paul, just where does this concept of praying to saints come from? Where in the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels is that found?


2,277 posted on 04/27/2010 10:59:19 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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