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To: Natural Law

Oh, now. Divine right of kings and all that. You cannot possibly hope to argue that the monarchy and the church were not part and parcel of the same entity. Otherwise the church would not have been the judge for the state expulsions of Jews and burning others at the stake.


1,074 posted on 04/23/2010 9:14:44 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
"You cannot possibly hope to argue that the monarchy and the church were not part and parcel of the same entity."

Sure I can. Although one hand often washed the other, they were separate entities. There was actually a bull written to stop the Inquisition that was withdrawn when the Spanish authorities refused to adhere to it.

1,086 posted on 04/23/2010 10:06:00 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: RegulatorCountry

This is actually pretty interesting. One reason for the Papal States was to assert the independence of the Church. The whole Guelph Ghibbeline strife was NOMINALLY about Church v. State (Empire) but of course other matters intervened.

Thomas a Becket was martyred over the issue of Church independence.

In Spain during the earlier parts of the infamous Inquisition there were also civil courts. A history professor at UVA (who says his studies of the period played into his becoming a Catholic) says that if you were busted for, say burglary, you might say, “Oh, and the Pope’s a jerk,” or something in order to end up before the Inquisition because they were gentler and had more rigorous due process with opportunities to recant.

By and large, I think we do not appreciate — I am just coming to appreciate — the chaotic state of things and their undefined condition throughout Europe in the period from say 800 to 1500.


1,103 posted on 04/24/2010 4:28:32 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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