Nifonging the Catholic Church

“You can hammer that all day long if you want. I cannot tell everything I know, but I can say there are teens who don’t care who they have sex with, who exploit sick, perverted adults for power, money, and drugs, just as they exploit others younger than they are for power and sex.”

Priests confessed to being habitual sexual predators on not just teens but even on children as young as seven years old.

But now it’s the children that enticed the perverted clerics into sin? I’ve heard pedophiles claim that their victims enticed them but I thought the foolishness of such an arguement would be obvious. Guess not.

You are willfully ignoring that these were not CHILD victims, they were teens. You evidently did not read my post.

I have never blamed a raped child for ANYTHING. But teens, every day, commit crimes up to and including murder, in order to gain money, drugs, power, sexual gratifications, etc. Are you one of those who call the Columbine murderers “children”?

Yet, teens do exploit adults to get what they want. Exploiting gay men for money, power, drugs, and sexual satisfaction is a common occurance. I’m not blaming VICTIMS, I’m blaming the deviant homosexual subculture.

But now it’s the children that enticed the perverted clerics into sin? I’ve heard pedophiles claim that their victims enticed them but I thought the foolishness of such an arguement would be obvious. Guess not.

Please. Ephebophiles. TEENS. It's not a foolish argument, it's reality. If you're going to bash the Church, do so from a position of REALITY. In case you've forgotten, we send CHILDREN (young adults) into war.

A definition: (From wikipedia, but it's accurate)

Because most late adolescents have physical characteristics near (or in other cases, identical) to that of full-grown adults, some level of sexual attraction to persons in the age group is common among adults of all sexual orientations.[6] The term ephebophilia is used only to describe the preference for mid-to-late adolescent sexual partners, not the mere presence of some level of sexual attraction. Such a distinct preference for individuals in mid or late adolescence is not generally regarded by psychologists as a pathology when it does not interfere with other major areas of one's life. Ephebophilia is not listed by name as a mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR), or the ICD-10, nor is it listed as a paraphilia. This is as opposed to pedophilia, which is categorized as a specific disorder in those systems with its own diagnostic criteria. However, ephebophilia can sometimes be diagnosed as a disorder if it results in dysfunction or exploitative behavior, either under the DSM specification 309.2, "Paraphilia Not Otherwise Specified", or under the ICD-10 F65.8 "Other disorders of sexual preference".[14][15]

Okay, I just figured it out.

You’re like one of the tea party infiltrators that want to exaggerate the least desirable qualities of the defenders of the Catholic church in this, aren’t you?

What a hoot- you really had me going there for a minute or two.

Will Wallace

Name-calling does not bolster whatever argument you were making.

It’s time to stop coddling these middle-aged homosexuals who want to exploit the Church financially, who remember that Father so and so from 20-30-years ago was gay, and who think they can get a million dollar plus payout and a wad of sympathy from gullible folks like you.

PS, I used to use my tagline to make snarky remarks, as you are doing, but the Religion Moderator said that was against the rules.

So....

I’m an ‘anti-Catholic bigot’, one of the ‘gullible folks’ who’s ‘as ignorant as (you) think (I) am’, but I’m name calling.

What name have I called you?

Are you telling me that your argument, and I’ll repeat the salient points here as I understand them, is serious?!

The priests were victimized by predatory teen homosexuals.
These same priests, when identified, were moved to different parishes, because, as you say, contemporaneous mental health professionals declared them ‘healed’.
-Healed of what? Homosexuality is not recognized as a mental disorder and victimhood isn’t either.

The church agreed to pay money to the families of these victims or to the victims themselves (depending on whether the victims - or predators- had BECOME ADULTS yet.

The church did this to keep the lid on the problem and to secure non-disclosure agreements from the victim/perpetrators.

The church continues to make payouts to the degree that 20 plus US dioceses are bankrupt.

After all these payouts to predator victims, from the Church, it’s ME that’s coddling them?

So, the Catholic church finds itself as either:

- a breeding ground for future angry homosexuals who sue the church for millions (billions) in adulthood; remembering father so and so who either did nothing or was victimized by predatory teens.

- an organization that employed some of the wrong people and then tried to cover their tracks by securing the silence of accusers with money and confidentiality agreements

- everything more or less happened but since the liberal media ignores the word homosexual and instead potentially misuses the word ‘pedophile’ in reference to teens; everyone should make nice and leave the church to sooth it’s victim priests back into full ministry.

I hereby withdraw my question as to whether you are like the tea party infiltrators. Sadly, you’ve convinced me you’re serious.

I removed my snarky tagline since it’s such a distraction.

Will Wallace

Your mischaracterization of my points, and your clear antagonism to my point of view makes the statements in your post suspect.

I did not call you an anti-Catholic bigot. If the shoe fits...

Your statement: “Homosexuality is not recognized as a mental disorder and victimhood isn’t either..”

When was homosexuality taken off the list of mental disorders? 2001. When did it become socially acceptable to be one? At least as late as the early 90s men were hiding in the closet, fearful of being labeled homosexual because of the new disease, AIDS.

Being a sexual abuse victim DOES require professional psychological support, but being a criminal does not. That lays the groundwork for the lawsuits.

Ephebophile priests were not victims, neither were their teen partners. Each got something they wanted. 20-30-40-50 years later, the middle aged gay men found out they could financially benefit by suing the Church and pretending to be victims.

“The church continues to make payouts to the degree that 20 plus US dioceses are bankrupt.” Totally foolish. The Church should fight this in court, no matter what it costs. Some dioceses have, and some priests have been exonerated. But some innocent priests have NOT, and even when they ARE, their lives are ruined.

http://www.dailyestimate.com/article.asp?id=29412

The words of a priest victim, from the article:

‘Until a priest has to personally experience the pain and degradation of being removed from priestly service, there is no one who can possibly ‘understand.’ This year, I will observe (I cannot say celebrate) my 40th anniversary of ordination as a Roman Catholic priest. This past June, I had a surprise visit to my parish office by two officials from the chancery, the vicar for priests and a canon lawyer (who happens to be a classmate of mine). They asked to see me privately and I was extremely nervous because of their attitude and demeanor. When the three of us were alone, they proceeded to tell me that a ‘credible allegation of sexual abuse’ was made against me and that I had an hour to pack a bag and to come with them. Few details were given to me when I asked.

‘They mentioned a name which I never heard of before and that this ‘victim’ was deceased. His widow and attorney came to the diocese to bring this supposed abuse to their attention. This was to have occurred some thirty years ago. I have served in my parish as pastor for almost 20 years without the slightest hint of any impropriety.

‘As I left with them in utter disbelief, shame and humiliation, I discovered later that the diocese had already sent out a ‘Fax Blast’ concerning my removal. After the press and media extensively exposed my ‘credible allegation of sexual abuse’ for two days, I found myself living in a hellish nightmare. After some two or three weeks later, the same two officials called me to another meeting and informed me that another ‘victim’ came forth after the public disclosure to make a second allegation against me. (And I had thought that life could not have possibly gotten any worse.)

‘As God as my witness, I swear as I swore on a Bible before the diocesan officials, these allegations are totally and completely untrue. My mind and my soul are bruised, beaten and trampled down. My parishioners are most supportive but I am not permitted to visit them and I cannot afford to call them by telephone. My health is not good and I had avoided many appointments with my doctors. This past Christmas Eve and Christmas Day were the worst emotionally devastating events I have ever had to endure. I was close to suicide. I suffer panic attacks, acute anxiety and severe depression. Worst of all, there is nobody that can really understand or share this onerous burden that I bear.

‘I am in financial ruin ‘to put the icing on the cake.’ I have exhausted my life savings trying to pay monthly expenses for car lease payments, auto insurance, telephone, and many credit card companies to mention a few.

‘Even when the day for my exoneration and restoration does come, I have already seen the future. There is none. Two weeks ago a fellow priest of our diocese was accused of sexual misconduct which allegedly occurred forty years prior, was exonerated and was officially assigned to serve ‘in restricted ministry’ at a convent motherhouse. When the media got hold of his new assignment, the public outcry that a ‘priest, accused of credible sexual abuse’ would be assigned to an area which had schools and day-care centers nearby, our bishop, bowing to ‘public pressure and shepherdly concern’ reversed and revoked his official assignment the very next day, not even twenty-four hours had elapsed.

‘Now I have abandoned all hope. I do not know where to turn for help, for someone who understands. I am ashamed. I am alone. I reach out for your hand.

__________________________________________________________

Sorry if I don’t fit your profile of a Catholic should be. I have news for you: the Church is not the evil institution you claim it is. It never has been.

I removed my snarky tagline since it’s such a distraction.

It didn't distract me. I thought it was clever. I just told you because it's against the rules. How do I know? The rule was made because of me doing it.

“I have news for you: the Church is not the evil institution you claim it is.”

I have news for you.

I have not made the claim that the Catholic church is an evil institution.

I have made the claim that many of her members take a position of blind defense that even her leaders do not hold (at least publicly).

That evil acts occur in an institution does not make the institution evil.

When people in leadership or rank and file members either deny the evil acts, turn a blind eye to evil acts, or try to deflect the evil to others; that institution has (at least temporarily) taken another step toward becoming an evil institution.

For some time period, I believe both the leadership and the rank and file of the Catholic church had taken this step in regard to priestly sex abuse.

Fortunately, the leadership has at least publicly begun the long hard road to accepting the church’s responsibility and culpability in this crisis.

Well meaning but misguided rank and file members will, most likely, eventually follow suit.

Will Wallace

By the way, the number of fathers falsely accused of child sexual abuse greatly outnumbers the accusations against priests.

It is my firm opinion that there must be criminal and civil penalties against those who falsely accuse ANYONE of child abuse. Without penalties, the worse that happens to the accuser is that the case is thrown out, while the parent or priest is still suspect, still ruined.

Fortunately, the leadership has at least publicly begun the long hard road to accepting the church’s responsibility and culpability in this crisis.

Oh please. Who gives the falsely accused -- a larger number than you might imagine -- their good name back?

Has anyone read the Gateway Pundit article on Catholic child sex abuse? It’s very enlightening, find it here:

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/04/catholic-priests-abuse-children-at-same-rate-as-anyone-else/

And if you don’t want to believe me, how about Ann Coulter? She says the number of child sex abusers among priests is 0.12%. That’s about a tenth of a hundredth. Now, you can make fun of me, but Ann Coulter has a reputation for accuracy.

Ann Coulter’s article is posted here on FR:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2493441/posts

You quoted me as saying: Fortunately, the leadership has at least publicly begun the long hard road to accepting the church’s responsibility and culpability in this crisis.

You responded: Oh please. Who gives the falsely accused — a larger number than you might imagine — their good name back?

My response.

Quoting myself, I would reiterate: Well meaning but misguided rank and file members will, most likely, eventually follow suit.

Continuing:

Some obviously sooner than others.

Will Wallace

And how many anti-Catholic bigots here walk hand in glove with those Obama-worshipping toadies?

Most, if not all, of them.

Behind every double standard lies an unconfessed single standard.

It is time, I think, for someone to seriously look at the work of SNAP. They jump so quickly on every priest accused of anything and pronounce him ‘Guilty”.

Monday, April 19, 2010

Psychiatrist Validates Cardinal Bertone’s Link Between Homosexuality and Clerical Sexual Abuse

Folks, this according to the Catholic News Agency:

Cardinal Bertone correct in linking clerical sex abuse and homosexuality, says psychiatrist

West Conshohocken, Pa., Apr 16, 2010 / 04:38 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Following Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone’s comments in Chile about a link existing between homosexuality and pedophilia in cases of clerical sexual abuse, both Church officials and secular figures clarified his statement. But Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a psychiatrist with experience treating sexually abusive priests, told CNA that the cardinal's statement is accurate.
At a press conference last Monday evening at the Pontifical Seminary of Santiago, Chile, the Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone said, “Many psychologists and psychiatrists have shown that there is no link between celibacy and pedophilia.” Instead, they have found a “relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia,” he added.
Many gay rights organizations reacted vehemently to Cardinal Bertone’s statement, leading Fr. Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican Press office, to assert that “it obviously refers to the problem of abuse by priests and not in the population in general."
A statement from the French Foreign Ministry calling the linkage “unacceptable” was followed by a statement by Fr. Marcus Stock, the General Secretary of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. “To the best of my knowledge, there is no empirical data which concludes that sexual orientation is connected to child sexual abuse,” he said.
“The consensus among researchers is that the sexual abuse of children is not a question of sexual ‘orientation,’ whether heterosexual or homosexual, but of a disordered attraction or ‘fixation,’” Fr. Stock added.
However, a U.S. psychiatrist with experience in treating priests with pedophilia disagrees that there is no link between homosexuality and sexual abuse of children. “Cardinal Bertone's comments are supported completely by the John Jay study report and by clinical experience,” Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons told CNA. “In fact, every priest whom I treated who was involved with children sexually had previously been involved in adult homosexual relationships.”
Fitzgibbons, who has been the director of Comprehensive Counseling Center in West Conshohocken, Penn. since 1988, has worked extensively with individuals suffering from same sex attraction (SSA) and priests accused of pedophilia. He also presently serves as a consultant to the Congregation for the Clergy at the Holy See.
In his 2002 “Letter to Catholic Bishops,” Fitzgibbons identified priests prone to sexual abuse as having suffered “profound emotional pain” during childhood due to loneliness, problems in their relationships with their fathers, rejection by their peers, lack of male confidence, and poor self image or body image. Fitzgibbons said that these experiences lead priests especially to direct their sadness and anger towards the Church, her teachings on sexual morality, and the Magisterium.
He also noted that priests who have engaged in sexual misconduct with minors suffer from a “denial of sin in their lives.” “They consistently refused to examine their consciences, to accept the Church's teachings on moral issues as a guide for their personal actions, or regularly avail themselves of the sacrament of reconciliation. These priests either refused to seek spiritual direction or choose (sic) a spiritual director or confessor who openly rebelled against Church teachings on sexuality,” the letter said.
When asked what sort of new information has become available since the publication of the letter, Fitzgibbons put an emphasis on narcissism. “This epidemic personality weakness in the west predisposes individuals to excessive anger, the worship of self, rebelliousness against God and His Church particularly in regard to sexual morality and sexual acting-out,” he said.
The psychiatrist also reviewed the findings of the John Jay researchers, who reported that 81percent of the victims of clerical sexual abuse were male of those makes who were abused, 51 percent of whom were age 11-14, 27 percent were aged 15-17, 16 percent between 8-10, and 6 percent were under 7 years of age, emphasized Fitzgibbons.
For priests who do suffer from SSA, “I would recommend that they become more knowledgeable about the emotional origins and healing of same-sex attractions, as well as the serious medical and psychiatric illnesses associated with homosexuality,” advised Fitzgibbons. “We have observed many priests grow in holiness and in happiness in their ministry as a result of the healing of their childhood and adolescent male insecurity, loneliness and anger and, subsequently, their same-sex attractions.”
Because of the link between homosexuality and clerical sexual abuse mentioned by Cardinal Bertone, men with same sex attraction have a solemn responsibility to seek help and to protect the Church from further shame and sorrow, said Fitzgibbons.

Commentary. Cardinal Bertone’s comments ignited the rage of homosexualist groups worldwide but you know what, the link between homosexuality, priests, and sexual abuse is undeniable. The John Jay research’s findings are particularly sobering: 81percent of the victims of clerical sexual abuse were male 51 percent of whom were age 11-14, 27 percent were aged 15-17, 16 percent between 8-10, and 6 percent were under 7 years of age. The homosexual preference of the abusing priests is clear.

The Homiletics and Pastoral Review published an extensive report, entitled Child Molestation by homosexuals and heterosexuals as far back as 2005 detailing the data. The authors, Brian W. Clowes and David L. Sonnier, observed that

The situation has become so charged that anyone who even suggests that there may be a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia is instantly and reflexively labeled a “homophobe” and a “gay basher.” The powerful homosexual lobby reacts instinctively to negative publicity and information by, as researcher Laird Wilcox calls it, “ritually defaming” those who dare raise their voices. Organized homosexual groups first attempt to completely ignore the evidence, or, if it simply cannot be ignored, they smear and discredit those who produced it.

That was 5 years ago but like it happens all to often in this controversy, the mainstream media, the self-appointed cultural elites, and their wealthy patrons have been very successful in stopping this sorry aspect underlying the crisis from coming fully into the limelight. It has taken the persistence of the Catholic League’s Bill Donohue and the courage of Cardinal Bertone’s to bring to light forcefully a truth that refuses to go away.

- Read Child Molestation by homosexuals and heterosexuals

Just look back over the past 7-8 weeks, and check out how many CATHOLIC-CHURCH-BASHING threads have found their way onto the Religion Forum. Honestly, I’m sick of it. This is Free Republic, and we are too good for that.

Honestly, who's claiming to be too good for what?

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Civil Discourse (Ecumenical)

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Corrupt altar boys seducing innocent priests??? Call it “church bashing” if you will, but that is the most foul and ridiculus defence I’ve ever encountred!

But if Wikipedia says that raping a thirteen year old is somehow qualitativly different than raping a ten year old that makes all the difference, doesn’t it? But perhaps not if you think both were lying.

What an utterly disgusting line of rationalizing nonsense!!!

Monday, April 19, 2010

Psychiatrist Validates Cardinal Bertone’s Link Between Homosexuality and Clerical Sexual Abuse

Nifonging the Catholic Church

The Anti-Semitism of the Presbyterian Church, USA

Suit accuses Presbyterian minister of child sex abuse

Civil Discourse (Ecumenical)

Time for an Opus

I'm Taking a Break