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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
I may not use the same "colorful" labels, but I also find it curious when the person our Lord used to inspire the majority of scripture included in the New Testamant section of the Bible is cast in such questionable light. Don't like what he said? Cast doubt on his character, his sanity. Cast doubt on his inspirational source. In other words, kill the messenger. Yet, "Protestants" are the ones always accused of rejecting the Bible and picking and choosing what scripture to believe. Hypocrisy sure can get deep in this forum.
Roman Catholics not only believe that doing penance (performing good works) will pay for their own sins, they also believe doing penance can and will pay for the sins of others.
Roman Catholics believe they can store up good works and if they have more than they need to earn their own salvation they can give these extra credit payments in the form of penance to others to pay for their sins.
It's a primitive system of barter, completely ignoring the only sacrifice for sin that saves anyone -- Christ risen from the cross.
Anyhoot, it's a work in progress. I think I'm going to need some serious help from the Holy Spirit to get it right.
Say a little prayer for me....
Correct so far.
There is nothing in the account that indicated that He went up for the purpose of meeting them,
Are you suggesting that He was "surprised" by what happened, that He did not know what was going to happen?
He met them transfigured, not in His earthly human (as we are) state.
That is irrelevant, Moses and Elijah were not dead, they were alive. Eternal life is what we are promised.
Nor does that justify the practice the habit of praying to saints when Jesus Himself said we are to pray to God the Father. Nowhere are we commanded to pray to anyone but God.
Asking saints to pray for us is quite different from praying to them. Throughout the Bible there are occasions where others are asked to pray and Revelation 5:8 speaks of the "prayers of the saints", keep in mind that the saints in Heaven see things differently from us (1 Corinthians 13:12).
But then again, it's Paul speaking.....
No, I doubt He was surprised by what happened, but his encounter with them was in His glorified body, which we don’t have yet.
These are some of the best, bald-faced questions about this practice I have seen. Great post.
What I suspect you will be inundated with is that tired old saw that, “The Catholic Church wrote the Bible and therefore we can add to it any theological claim we wish. After all, we are correct because we are correct and it is subject to the Church, not the other way around.”
This is the most common answer I see around here.
lol. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
I've never heard anyone doubt Paul wrote Ephesians.
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ..." -- Ephesians 1:1-2"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Maybe Judith is thinking of Hebrews.
Or Francis Bacon.
And without Feast Days proclaimed for them, and structures named after them, and relics, amulets, statues...I could go on.
Since I KNOW you never met the guy, I am curious WHY you don't like him.
I've noticed that Roman Catholics do not understand what the Law is with regards to Jesus Christ and salvation.
Thus they cannot see the necessity of the sacrifice fulfilling the Law, once for all the sins of His flock, nor do they understand that Christ alone did just that on behalf of His sheep.
This may be due, in part, to Rome's ignorance of the Old Testament and its insistence that the OT has very little meaning to the New Testament, when in fact all Scripture is God-breathed. The OT and NT make up ONE BOOK wherein God reveals to men who He is, who they are, what they are supposed to do in the present, and what awaits them in the future.
All that pre-destination theology in Ephesians — must have been written by squirrels in Franciscan attics
I pray for you and all your loved ones every day!
The prohibition was against communication with the dead and Moses and Elijah were very much alive as witnessed by Saints Peter, James and John. The state of our Lord had nothing to do with what the Disciples witnessed.
They can be recognized for the exemplary lives without having titles added to their names and without prayers being said to them.
And without Feast Days proclaimed for them, and structures named after them, and relics, amulets, statues...I could go on.
- - -
INDEED, INDEED.
Catholics pray TO saints and make requests TO them. Here are some examples made by a brief google search.
These people can’t do anything FOR us. If it were just a matter of asking them to pry for us, that could be defensible, but these prayers are petitions to them. And prayers to ANGELS? What’s with that?
One thing that stuck out at me was the massive number of those who have been granted the title of *Saint*. It’s astounding. Maybe the purpose is for exhorting those of us here on earth by their exemplary life, but I’ve never heard of well over 90% of them.
http://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=96
To St. Joseph for Protection
Gracious St. Joseph, protect me and my family from all evil as you did the Holy Family. Kindly keep us ever united in the love of Christ, ever fervent in imitation of the virtue of our Blessed Lady, your sinless spouse, and always faithful in devotion to you. Amen.
http://www.ourladyweb.com/mary-prayers.html
Prayer to St. Michael
Holy Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do you, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
Prayer To Your Guardian Angel
Angel of God, my guardian dear, To whom God’s love commits me here, Ever this day, be at my side, To light and guard, Rule and guide.
Amen.
http://www.2heartsnetwork.org/Jude.htm
For Spiritual Help (to St. Jude)
Glorious apostle, martyr, and servant of Jesus, St. Jude Thaddeus, you spread the true faith among the most barbarous and distant nations, and won to the obedience of Jesus Christ many tribes and peoples by the power of His Holy Word. Grant, I beg you, that from this day I may renounce every sinful habit, that I may be preserved from all evil thoughts, that I may always obtain your assistance, particularly in danger and difficulty, and that I may reach the heavenly country, with you to adore the Most Holy Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, forever and ever. Amen.
http://www.catholicity.com/prayer/prayers.html
To Mary
Memorare
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary,
that never was it known
that any one who fled to thy protection,
implored thy help
or sought thy intercession,
was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence,
We fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins my Mother;
to thee do we come, before thee we stand, sinful and sorrowful;
O Mother of the Word Incarnate,
despise not our petitions,
but in thy mercy hear and answer them. Amen.
No doubt. SOP.
The whole point of the OT is to lead us to Christ and so that the world will recognize Him when He comes (came). The OT gives incredible meaning to the NT.
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