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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
NATURAL LAW: “Crosier Envy, akin to Penis Envy...”
Paul corrected Peter. Deal with it.
Jesus own words here in Matthew.....
Matthew 6: 5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'
14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Tell me.... When you go to confession, don't you expect the priest and God to forgive you your sins? Do you expect others to forgive you your sins when you offend against them?
There’s a difference between Catholic and Christian.
Catholicism does not define all of Christianity. There are Christians in every denomination and one can be a Christian and not Catholic and one can be a Catholic and not Christian.
Catholics do not have a monopoly on the term *Christian*.
Of course. I am an adult.
But FORCING a child (yes, that was my question) to FORGIVE his/her molester is twisted and sick.
It was a legitimate comparison pf psychological pathologies in which the absence of an object or attribute results in feelings of inferiority and psychic conflict.
Your fixating on the word "penis" in that analogy is the subject of a whole other psychological pathology.
Think of all the people who have jumped on this thread and stated that the Catholic Church has handled the “scandal” all wrong — are you saying that the Catholic Church should have, instead, forced the “victims” to accept the apologies of the priests who supposedly molested them?
Would that be the CHRISTIAN way for the Catholic Church to handle things, in your view?
Is that why every non-Catholic is castigating the Church? Because the Catholic Church did not demand that the “victims” forgive their alleged molesters? Because that’s not what I’m getting here.
Instead, there is almost universal condemnation of the Catholic Church by the anti-Catholic bigots here, and not one of them has suggested that the victims forgive the perpetrators. Instead, there has been a disgusting display of glee over how much the Church has paid to help those poor victims recover, as though the amount of the money corresponded to the severity of the alleged molestation.
That makes no sense. I cannot make it make sense. And I never heard Christ say anything about little children (did you speicify an age?) must forgive those who harm then.
I think that most of us have trouble with forgiveness and the the more horrific the transgression, the more difficult it is.
As impossible as it may seem to forgive child molesters, we should realize that our Lord Himself also understood how hard it would be to forgive these monsters. Nevertheless, He explains in Luke 17:1-4 that we must forgive, but that He will punish them.
However well the Reformation reformed it was a response to centuries of corruption within the Catholic hierarchy. But what of today?
“The history of the Protestant Reformation and the Council of Trent (1545-1563)
record the rampant corruption of bishops and priests. It is not hyperbole to
speculate that sexually and financially the Church is equally corrupt today.”
A. W. Richard Sipe, quoted in the book, Sin Against the Innocents,
published by PRAEGER
Assumption of Mary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_Mary
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm
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John 19:26 “When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.”
These verses just deal with Jesus discharging His responsibility to care for his parents as the oldest son by providing for her care after His death. This does not indicate that she is the mother of the whole church.
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I read nothing in Luke 1 or Genesis 3 that indicates that Mary was without sin.
The sin nature comes through the father, not the mother. The reason Jesus was born sinless is that He didn’t have a human father; god, who is sinless, is His father. It’s irrelevant whether Mary had sinned or not. His being in her presence would not contaminate Him any more than His being in the world and touching lepers contaminated Him.
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2495846/posts?page=1339#1339
p32
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.
8 - She became Ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.
—Ten Series of Meditations on the Mysteries of the Rosary by John Ferraro St Paul Editions.
YOU were the one who brought it up and used the analogy in the first place.
From Amazon about Sipe's book, "Sex, Priests and Power"..."Sipe offers the first quantatative and qualatative look at the cancer on the American Latin Rite Catholic Church. He offers convincing evidence that 50% of the Latin Rite Priests and Bishops are sexually active, despite the Church's teaching that any and all sexual activity outside of marriage is mortally sinful. "
I pity you the emptiness that accompanies the rejection of a filial relationship with Mary. I ask Her to pray for your redemption.
Check out the logo for the Catholic Church's 1973 Archdiocesan Youth Commission. Do you think this is depicting crosier envy?
The scandal belongs to the papacy. The sin belongs to the papacy. The cover-up is engineered by the papacy. The victims are destroyed by the papacy.
And what do Roman Catholic apologists do?
They blame everyone else.
These verses just deal with Jesus discharging His responsibility to care for his parents as the oldest son by providing for her care after His death. This does not indicate that she is the mother of the whole church.
That is what you have been taught and it is WRONG.
IF Jesus had younger brothers He would have been required to entrust His mother to the next oldest brother. He DID NOT do that.
At the Crucifixion Saint John represented the entire Church as he was the only Disciple present.
I read nothing in Luke 1 or Genesis 3 that indicates that Mary was without sin.
Was Eve sinless at ANY point?
As far as "Queen of Hell", that is a greatly misunderstood term and not a dogmatic teaching of the Church. As far as Purgatory goes, Purgatory no more resembles Hell than Heaven does.
As a comedy bit by David Steinberg reminded us years ago, "Everything counts!"
It is the
ONLY
ROUTE TO FULL WHOLENESS AND HEALING FOR THE ABUSED OF ANY AGE.
When someone asserts as you did, the assertion is essentially insisting that the author knows better
THAN ALMIGHTY GOD does about forgiveness and abuse.
Considering Calvary,
that's an EXCEEDINGLY FOOLHARDY assertion.
Certainly WHEN AND IF the child is very young and has been horribly physically abused, it may take some multiple discussions to reach the point where the child understands and is able and willing to forgive. However, it is ESSENTIAL that they reach that point
FOR THEIR OWN HEALING, WHOLENESS AND PEACE
AS WELL AS FOR THEIR ETERNAL DESTINY.
BTW, THE GRAND DEAN of the psyc dept, now retired just walked in. He's an old time scholarly sort of soul with a great deal of Christian humanness (though he may be an atheist or agnostic, for all I know, on that score), compassion, empathy and understanding as well as a very high level of professionalism . . . and I posed the question to him.
He agreed that the abused must come to the place of forgiveness and letting go. That they will likely never forget but they must come to a place of forgiveness and letting go else the bitterness etc. will eat them alive while the abuser may not care less. I agree with him wholeheartedly.
I thought you were taller.
Do you hang out a lot in bathrooms taking photos?
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