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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
You are absolutely correct. That is why we must examine Paul in the light of the Gospels to understand what is his personal opinion, what is his instruction to the individual churches that he is charge of, and his general commentaries and theological observations on Christianity in general.
After things settled down some, he, as well as the other writers of scripture, encouraged leaders of the church to be "husbands of one wife" and to demonstrate their leadership of the church in their having good and decent wives and obedient children. See my point?
Things did not 'settle down' until about AD 175. Paul's instructions were to the leaders of the Church to have no more than one wife, not to specifically have 'one wife' period. Paul, according to what we know, never did. We are not sure of any of the Apostles. We are pretty sure that Jesus did not. This tradition was set by Paul, and became firmly entrenched in the Church to the point where no priest is allowed to marry, although already married men can be priests, and no married bishops are permitted.
That is correct. Augustine also wrote that “Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation”. And he’s also the dude who wrote my tagline. :)
It ALL goes back to the first sin when Satan posed the question did God really say.....
A huge amount of that, alright.
Maybe I should haved been a little more specific; what color was Michael Servetus' burning flesh?
YOUR attitudes seem Biblical, to me.
Keep in mind, please, that as a 7-8 or so year old kid, one day I was hysterical over the pain Christ experienced on The Cross in my behalf. My mother could not console me. I eventually calmed down with the hope that God somehow enabled him to bear it without it all being so outrageously over the line as it seemed.
Certainly God enabled Him to bear it. It was outrageously over the line.
A Roman Catholic et al crucifix still gives me the willies if I think about it much at all. And to view it grieves me and saddens me—not so much because of what it represents . . . as . . . that’s not His state. HE AROSE. Why not show THAT!
HOWEVER,
does she criticize the crucifix BECAUSE she sees it as Christ in weakness etc.?
I don’t think so.
Quite so. Quite so.
Have you read Bonhoeffer’s
LIFE TOGETHER?
PRICELESS. I should read it again.
Sarcasm can be useful when there’s a great percentage of truth about the target of it.
Nice try.
Utter fail.
I think it’s a common belief of unspiritual people to consider prophets, like Jeremiah (considered one of the greatest by the way)and Paul, to be wide-eyed crazy people, clad in goatskins and going around claiming to speak for God. Nothing can be farther from the truth, but their own “superior reason” tells them that this is true. Many believe the Hebrews were nomadic goat keepers who couldn’t possibly have known much of anything.
Both Jeremiah and Paul were of the tribe of Benjamin, no small thing for those who know biblical history.
862 posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 11:04:46 AM by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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Good points, imho.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
Are you saying that God authored Luther's extreme anti-semetic books in the same manner as He authored the scriptures to further revise them?
AMEN! AMEN!:
No need to rank them. God’s love is sovereign and is the reason for our every breath. His love is perfect judgment and His love is perfect mercy.
The Holy Spirit is God working in us in real time and space, here on this earth, now, sanctifying our lives and bringing us closer to Him.
And the word of God, which is the “sword of the Spirit,” is the means which the Holy Spirit uses to reach us, teach us and redirect us from darkness to light. The holy Scriptures, God speaking directly to His children, is received with a heart made sorrowful in the knowledge of its sins and a mind renewed to know the truth of Christ risen.
All in all, an amazing plan.
The other day my husband saw the most extraordinary rose, huge and blossoming with deep reds and bright yellows, and he said, “See, this is proof God loves us. He didn’t have to make it so beautiful.”
So we “rejoice evermore and pray without ceasing, in every thing we give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning us.”
“There is not one blade of grass, there is no color in this world that is not intended to make us rejoice.” — John Calvin
who interjected your personal beliefs into the thread? wasn’t us
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NOW NOW!
The magicsterical does NOT approve of trying to confuse the sheeple with facts.
maybe, on the internet you never know. Yet let me just point out, as objectively as possible, that it’s rather [DIS]ingenuous for one to post a thread, make it about one’s personal beliefs and then get offended when people comment on those beliefs
INDEED.
When people ask me why the Bible consists of certain books but not other ancient manuscripts, I remind them of John 6:63 - the words of God are spirit and life. The words of men are neither spirit nor life. Thereby Christians know the difference.
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63
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AMEN! AMEN!
Welllll that IS my point of view.
And I’d expected that you’d noticed it, too.
- - -
I FIERCELY AND HEARTILY agree!
WELL DONE and a great service to the thread . . .
this one is absolutely preposterous, to me on several levels for at least several reasons:
Post #441:
Before I became Catholic or even Christian, I spent a lot of time reading the Old and New Testament scriptures in various translations. Frankly, St. Paul was just plain loony in a lot of what he says, legalistic and nit-picky at times, and at other times a wild-eyed foaming visionary. The epistles made me wonder at times if he had a blood sugar problem, you know, extreme highs and lows. Now, 1 Corinthians 13 was absolutely true and beautiful, and if that were all we had of St. Paul, it had been an elegant sufficiency.
Good points. Thx.
Anti-Semitism didn’t just fall out of the sky when Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of Castle Church in Wittenberg.
He learned it, when he was Catholic. The Spanish Inquisition was not even three decades before. The Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492. There was considerable hostility to Jews throughout European Christendom in the late 15th century.
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