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To: MississippiMan
"Where does the Bible say multiple pieces of cloth were used?"

John Chapter 20 refers several times to linen wrappings (plural) "and the face cloth, which had been on his head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself" 20:7 This is not consistent with the single piece shroud of Turin.

20 posted on 04/03/2010 11:27:25 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity

The face cloth still exists too and the bloodstains on it match those of the Shroud of Turin.

From http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/terms/Sudarium-of-Oviedo.htm

The Sudarium’s existence and presence in Oviedo is well attested since the eighth century and in Spain since the seventh century. Before these dates the location of the Sudarium is less certain, but some scholars trace it to Jerusalem in the first century.

Forensic analysis of the bloodstains on the shroud and the Sudarium suggest that both cloths may have covered the same head at nearly the same time. Based on the bloodstain patterns, the Sudarium would have been placed on the man’s head while he was in a vertical position, presumably while still hanging on the cross. This cloth was then presumably removed before the shroud was applied.

A 1999 study by Mark Guscin, member of the multidisciplinary investigation team of the Spanish Center for Sindonology, investigated the relationship between the two cloths. Based on history, forensic pathology, blood chemistry (the Sudarium also is said to have type AB blood stains), and stain patterns, he concluded that the two cloths covered the same head at two distinct, but close moments of time. Avinoam Danin (see above) concurred with this analysis, adding that the pollen grains in the Sudarium match those of the shroud.


21 posted on 04/03/2010 11:35:17 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (END THE WAR ON LIBERTY!)
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To: circlecity
John Chapter 20 refers several times to linen wrappings (plural) "and the face cloth, which had been on his head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself" 20:7 This is not consistent with the single piece shroud of Turin.

Okay, I see where it says "cloths" in ESV, and I will do some exegetical research on this point, but even if there were multiple pieces of fabric, that in no way rules out the shroud of Turin being ONE of multiples. Perhaps he was wrapped in strips and then one large shroud placed over him. I don't know. As for the face cloth, there is also a separate cloth, with a different owner, that purports to be the face cloth. The blood stains on it match those on the face of the shroud perfectly.

MM (in TX)

36 posted on 04/03/2010 12:17:35 PM PDT by MississippiMan (http://gogmagogblog.wordpress.com/)
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To: circlecity
Jerome Corsi said on Coast to Coast AM last night ( in case you were listening ) was, that, the main piece of the shroud, ( the one we see, the 16 foot piece was the first one that went over his body ) folded at the head and went behind him and in front of him.
The head cloth and the strips were to keep the main piece or shroud in place so it won't come off... so, yes, there was the main piece that folded over his head and down his body, and the one that was placed over his head, and the strips of cloths with spices in it went over that.
The shroud could have been placed on him by the Romans , and then Jesus's family could have came later and took his body and placed the rest of the cloth on him...
Another thing Jerome Corsi said was, either the material, or the threads had some chemicals, resins, or pollen on it as similar as to the Dead Sea Scrolls, what that means, is ? it came from the same area, or place ( Israel ) as the Dead Sea Scrolls.
However, no matter what evidence you show people, some people already made up their minds that they are not going to believe...
As for me ? I believe it is the real deal, and it is the cloth that was placed over Jesus Christ.
101 posted on 04/05/2010 4:32:05 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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