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To: kosta50; Albion Wilde
Hey Kosta. Good to see you.

My question has to do with the idea that God is in control and if he is in control then nothing in the world is against his will and a reason for him to dislike because everything is just the way he wants it. Otherwise he is not in control. If he is not in control then he is not sovereign.

I suppose you already know MY answer. :) God is sovereign and in control, and nothing that happens in the world is against His will. The Bible clearly teaches that God both hates sin AND that certain sin is in accordance with His plan and will. The easiest example is the crucifixion. It was not by accident but by Divine design, and required sin.

The reconciliation is that God's "likes" and "dislikes" are relative to the bigger or smaller picture. In the small picture of course God hated to see the sin of His Son being crucified. However, in the big picture He required it to happen for the greater will that His elect be saved. We are told explicitly that God uses sin for good:

Gen. 50:18-20 : 18 His brothers then came and threw themselves down before him. “We are your slaves,” they said. 19 But Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
156 posted on 04/06/2010 11:38:54 PM PDT by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Forest Keeper; Albion Wilde
Hello FK, good to see you too join us with a Calvinist "twist" on this issue.

First, going back, the issue is about God being "dissatisfied" or "unhappy." My contention is that God cannot be unhappy or dissatisfied and be God. After all, even though he hates sin, he allows sin because he finds it useful and even necessary that sin exists or else he would not allow it. So, while he may hate sin, he is not dissatisfied because of it.

You present your well known POV response, whereby, on some "level" God can be unhappy with his Son having to be crucified but on another, higher, "level" he is happy because it is for the greater good and it is, after all, part of his plan.

But if God is God then he should never be forced to make a decision that makes him unhappy, nor should he ever regret it.  Because he is always in charge and control, his decisions are by necessity always just and perfect (so why would he regret them?!?), and because the world by necessity must be just the way he wants it or else he is not God.

However the Bible tells us otherwise. So, either the Bible is wrong or God is not in charge on all "levels" but has to "put up" with things not according to his will and satisfaction.

So, the plot thickens...

165 posted on 04/07/2010 3:49:20 AM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: Forest Keeper
The Bible clearly teaches that God both hates sin AND that certain sin is in accordance with His plan and will.

That makes God the author of sin, which the Bible teaches that He clearly is not.

The easiest example is the crucifixion. It was not by accident but by Divine design, and required sin.

Did Jesus sin? Did God require Judas to sin? Where does it say that Judas was made to sin?

Gen. 50:18-20 : 18 His brothers then came and threw themselves down before him. “We are your slaves,” they said. 19 But Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.

Are you then claiming that God made his brothers sin?

216 posted on 04/07/2010 4:23:50 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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