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To: Dutchboy88
Well, here we go again...reading lessons.

I am happy for you that you are taking them. I've thought that it was needed ever since I started noticing your posts.

I loosely described them as letters.

I guess we Catholics take them more seriously than Calvinists do and refer to them as the Gospel according to Luke and the Acts of the Apostles. This also reflects on the Catholic primacy of Jesus versus the Calvinist primacy of Paul and the OT.

Certainly. I attempted the vain efforts of doing law of conscience (for Gentiles) and the Law (for Jews). Tried it all, until the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to see that Jesus was setting the bar of needed righteousness so high (the way Paul describes) that I would give up my attempts to work.

I suggest that it was not the Holy Spirit - I bring to you the words of Jesus:

John 3: 14 And just as Moses lifted up 5 the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 6 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life." 16 For God so loved the world that he gave 7 his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn 8 the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

If you do not believe you are condemned.

Matthew 12: 36 25 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak. 37 By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

Your words matter and all men are accountable for theirs.

Matthew 16: 24 19 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, 20 take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 21 26 What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? 27 22 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.

If you do evil or do nothing, you will be Judged by it.

Matthew 25: 19 After a long time the master of those servants came back and settled accounts with them. 20 The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the additional five. 10 He said, 'Master, you gave me five talents. See, I have made five more.' 21 His master said to him, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master's joy.' 22 (Then) the one who had received two talents also came forward and said, 'Master, you gave me two talents. See, I have made two more.' 23 His master said to him, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master's joy.' 24 Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, 'Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; 25 so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.' 26 His master said to him in reply, 'You wicked, lazy servant! 11 So you knew that I harvest where I did not plant and gather where I did not scatter? 27 Should you not then have put my money in the bank so that I could have got it back with interest on my return? 28 Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten. 29 12 For to everyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 13 And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.'

What you do with the talents on loan from God, you will be Judged by.

This was managed by God to drive me to Himself, and Him alone, not some group that promises to wave water over me, absolve me from sin, sell indulgences to escape purgatory (I guess this is back!), and the myriad of other superstitious substitutes for the sweet faith that grows from unmerited favor...grace.

Anyone who tells you that a believing Christian's acts in front of God do not matter repudiate the Gospel message. I don't know what group you are referring to here, can you enlighten me?

You have claimed these tenets, these commandments are to be followed to become a faithful Christian. I do not. So, I ask again...are you doing this? Are you being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect?

We as Christians are called on every single day to imitate Christ. How is your imitation of Christ? Does a Calvinist even bother?

1 Corinthians 11: 1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 1 I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.

Paul is telling us to imitate Christ and to do as the Church instructs them to do.

But, you advocate that obeying these commands are part and parcel of the Gospel. So, we ask...have you sold all your possessions and given the money to the poor and followed Him? Then where did you get that computer? That car? That retirement plan?

I do advocate the commands of Jesus. I have not yet sold all possessions; but I am in the service of God and His Church, and my possessions will be dealt with before I meet Him. On the other hand, you seem to be saying that since one of the commands of Jesus will only be imperfectly met, then none of them have to be met at all. Do you see the evil in this idea?

And, please, don't tell me all the gold in the Vatican couldn't be used to feed the poor better than draping the self-appointed oppressors with robes, hats, Prada shoes and popemobiles?

I didn't know that oppressors were draped in hats, shoes and popemobiles. That presents quite a vision. I am also not aware of any Prada shoes in the Vatican. Can you enlighten me on this one please?

And, re read my post, Mark. I did say that all of the Gospel verses were true...just not to be used the way the RCC uses them.

I'm not sure of what you mean by RCC, but the Catholic Church wrote them, selected them, interpreted them and bring them to you today after 2000 years of study. We do not believe that a couple of hours sitting around a table and fuelled by ethanol results in proper interpretation of Scripture.

For some reason, the RCC allows the eating of shrimp, don't they. How is that possible? It says right there in black and white, don't eat shrimp (Lev. 11). But, your hermeneutic is inconsitently applied and selective.

It is very consistently applied. Peter told us that the dietary laws have been revoked in Acts 10. We take the words of Jesus over all, and we interpret the NT through the words of Jesus and the OT through the New.

Look at all of the RCC threads on FR that adore men's performances, the canonization of men, the ceremonies of men, the veneration of Mary, the adolation of the pope. Rome has concocted a man's religion...not the Gospel.

It is entirely Gospel, and NT and OT. Some more Jesus:

Luke 15: 1 1 The tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to listen to him, 2 but the Pharisees and scribes began to complain, saying, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them." 3 So to them he addressed this parable. 4 "What man among you having a hundred sheep and losing one of them would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the lost one until he finds it? 5 And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy 6 and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, 'Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.' 7 I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance. 8 "Or what woman having ten coins 2 and losing one would not light a lamp and sweep the house, searching carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she does find it, she calls together her friends and neighbors and says to them, 'Rejoice with me because I have found the coin that I lost.' 10 In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

We celebrate the perseverence of men who do the will of God. We do not abandon our efforts to do the will of God, as you have indicated that Calvinists do, since the will of God is impossible for Calvinists to follow.

God must reach down open the eyes and draw the man to Himself...something the Catholic Church cannot do.

The Church has never said that it could. Why would you say this?

But, the misdirected, self-righteous cult of Rome clearly teaches that it, and it alone, is the director of the "church" in the world.

Negative. There is no cult of Rome that I am aware of. The Catholic Church is directed by God. I think you may be mixing epithets here.

We are just setting that record straight and telling folks that Rome's entire thrust is a man-centered theology, although that is an oxymoron of epic proportion.

You may wish to try writing lessons after taking the reading lessons. You wouldn't care to rephrase this in English would you?

Run, don't walk away.

From Jesus? I know that that is the thrust of Calvinism, but I must decline. I serve Jesus, however imperfectly, but I do not serve the lord of this world.

169 posted on 04/02/2010 9:55:43 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

I actually laughed out loud when I saw your tag line. The Holy Spirit did for me what you credit your church for doing for you. I’m sure the Holy Spirit feels left out in your life, but then you have Mary.


170 posted on 04/02/2010 10:27:27 AM PDT by fish hawk
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To: MarkBsnr
"This also reflects on the Catholic primacy of Jesus versus the Calvinist primacy of Paul and the OT."

Again, the Catholic misunderstanding of the words of Jesus (I think this is called YOPIOSNTSTCC). We believers in Christ, as opposed to those stuck in the Vatican errors, treat the Scriptures as the Word of God throughout. Rather than pick and choose to support bathrobes and big hats, we read the story through.

The Gospel of John, as do the other Gospels, calls us to believe. The question that you cannot seem to address is, is it men who by agency of an organization or by their own free will (the Catholic view) come to Him and believe OR is it by agency of God alone drawing them to Himself, based upon His decision from before the foundation of the world. Which is it? Heretical or Calvinism?

172 posted on 04/02/2010 10:46:13 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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