Posted on 03/29/2010 7:48:52 AM PDT by Between the Lines
At a traditional Passover seder, you'll find the broken matzo, taste the bitter herbs and listen to a retelling of the Exodus story.
You won't hear a mention of Jesus. But some churches -- including an East Manchester Township congregation -- are now hosting Christian seders, adding Christian symbolism to a 3,000-year-old Jewish ritual of remembrance.
At these seders, the stripes and holes in the matzo are said to represent Jesus' whipped and pierced body. The matzo is broken and wrapped in a white cloth, as was Jesus' body for burial.
Some Jews consider such seders to be offensive and a trespassing of sorts. They fear that Christians -- however well-meaning -- are infringing on Jewish liturgical territory.
"It registers as a certain hostile takeover from a Jewish perspective, as well as a betrayal of Jewish history and the Jewish community," said the Rev. Christopher Leighton, executive director of the Institute for Christian and Jewish Studies in Baltimore.
Jews also say churches are using the Christian seder to proselytize among them. They note such seders are often led by Messianic Jews, who believe Jesus was the Messiah, or groups such as Jews for Jesus that work to bring Jews into the Christian church.
Rabbi Jeffrey Astrachan of Temple Beth Israel in York Township pointed out that religions have borrowed and adopted rituals and ideas from one another before; however, they usually incorporate them into the context of their own faith. In this case, the church has borrowed a Jewish ritual and "manipulated" its symbolism without detaching it from Judaism, he said.
"I wouldn't go so far as to say I am offended by the borrowing," Astrachan said by e-mail. "I am, however, disturbed that some fringe groups can't leave others alone to select a faith of their own choosing. If the Messianics want to be true at all to their Jewish roots, they would understand that Jews do not proselytize."
The Rev. Chuck Sprenkle of St. Paul United Methodist Church in East Manchester Township said Jews are invited to his church's Messiah in the Passover seder on Tuesday, but the aim isn't an evangelistic one.
"The purpose is not to convert them -- although that would be a nice thing -- but to show how our faiths do connect," Sprenkle said. "I also think it's a very good opportunity for Christians to deepen the history of their faith. . . . They're seeing the presence of Christ's life in the seder."
Several Christian seders led by Messianic groups are planned at midstate churches this week.
The Rev. Israel Cohen, who will lead the seder demonstration at Sprenkle's church on Tuesday, serves as a missionary for the Messianic organization Chosen People Ministries. His presentation at 100 churches a year explains how each part of the Passover seder "points to the Messiah," he said.
"I'm challenging the churches to be praying for the salvation of the Jewish people and encouraging them to witness to the Jewish people," said Cohen, who lives in Kissimmee, Fla., but has nine seder events in Pennsylvania this week.
Passover, which begins Monday night, commemorates the freedom of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt under the leadership of Moses, who was directed by God.
The Jewish seder (which means "order" in Hebrew) has a set structure, and its symbols (such as the foods on the seder plate) hold great meaning for Jews. For example, the matzo recalls the unleavened bread the Israelites ate in their flight from Egypt. The roasted shank bone is a reminder of the sacrificial lamb offered to God at Passover.
"The story of the Exodus from Egypt is particularly important because that is when the Jewish people became a nation," said Rabbi Elazar Green of the Chabad Jewish Enrichment Center of Lancaster and York. "We're commanded in the Torah to celebrate and retell the story of the Exodus every year."
Sprenkle acknowledged that some Jews might be turned off by the idea of a Christian seder but said it could at least start a conversation about the differences between the faiths.
"In many ways, every religion is offensive to someone else," he said. "That won't stop me from trying to share with them something that they might not have seen before."
For decades, Catholics, Presbyterians and other churches have held seders as a tool of interfaith dialogue.
"Those intentions were noble at first and continue to be if they were inviting a rabbi or other knowledgable Jew to explain a Jewish practice, for example," said Leighton, a Presbyterian minister.
"It becomes an altogether different phenomenon when the purpose is not to understand or appreciate our Jewish neighbors better, but to say 'We really know what's going on in the ritual or practice, and Jews would, too, if they only understood the symbolism is pointing to (Jesus).'"
Astrachan of Temple Beth Israel noted that Passover is a celebration of freedom.
"As Jews the world-over recall the freedoms granted them by God, let us also pray for the freedom to be true to our own religious beliefs, free from the desires and wishes of those who can't seem to leave others alone," he said.
Messianic Jews
Messianic Jews believe that Jesus is the messiah and savior of the world.
They are active in groups such as Jews for Jesus and the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America, which is headquartered in Springfield, Delaware County, and is a network of synagogues that proclaim faith in Yeshua (Jesus of Nazareth) while maintaining their Jewish identity.
The synagogues are not recognized as Jewish by mainstream Jewish bodies -- many of whom consider Messianic Judaism deceptive and do not want such converts to call themselves Jews.
Messianic Jews generally teach that God is a compound entity that exists in three forms (father, son and Holy Spirit).
They also believe in God's eternal covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and so follow the traditional Jewish calendar and religious observances (as Jesus did).
Amen & Amen
Christians are frequently invited to traditional seders, (some were at my home) and some Christian churches hold traditional seders where a rabbi is invited to explain the traditions. Anyone could hold a traditional seder if they wanted. The question here isn't the lack of traditional seders open to Chrisitians, it's that group of Christians who want to make the traditions of the seder mean something completely different.
” adding Christian symbolism to a 3,000-year-old Jewish ritual of remembrance.”
Every time a (knowing) Christian partakes of the Lord’s Supper, he is re-inacting a Seder 1986 years ago (more or less).
Whether the Christian knows it or not.
Altering the Seder is silly, though.
Christ didn’t say “do something similar to this” in rememberance of me. He said “do this in remembrance of me.”
I can't imagine any Jew upset that a Christian wanted to attend a seder or have their own. I welcome it, and know many other Jews that feel the same.
The issue comes in with the group of Messianics that is trying to make the traditions of the seder mean something else. We have been told every year for centuries what the matzoh means; I'm not happy to hear a Messianic group proclaiming that they know what Jewish traditions mean better than centuries of Jews do.
Jesus need not be involved. He wasn’t around yet.
I respectfully disagree. While the original Exodus was an amazing demonstration of God's power and love for His people in its own right, in the larger context, it was actually a foreshadowing of Christ, who would free not just the Jews but all people who believe from the bondage of sin and lead them into the Promised Land of eternal life. This was accomplished by Christ becoming the Lamb of God, sacrificed to take away the sins of the world. All of the elements of the Seder point to Christ, and I see no problem with Christians pointing out the symbology that pointed to Christ thousands of years before His birth.
I guess your Jesus is not G-d.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
The Jews are our beloved elder brethren, and the Seder is appropriate for us as well.
Anyone who can't see the seeds of the death and resurrection of Christ in the traditional seder elements doesn't know enough about Christian theology to really comment on it.
As with far more of the Jewish observances than most Jews (or Christians) even realize, the ancient observance is also preparation for the acceptance of the Messiah.
“Those intentions were noble at first and continue to be if they were inviting a rabbi or other knowledgable Jew to explain a Jewish practice, for example,” said Leighton, a Presbyterian minister.
“It becomes an altogether different phenomenon when the purpose is not to understand or appreciate our Jewish neighbors better, but to say ‘We really know what’s going on in the ritual or practice, and Jews would, too, if they only understood the symbolism is pointing to (Jesus).’”
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We had a Messianic Jew come to our church to give a short series of talks about the Seder. And how the various rituals point not only back to their freedom under Moses, but also points forward to freedom in Jesus. I wonder how this pastor would have felt about a Messianic Jew doing a Seder?
I have done a couple of Seders (well, as a Christian - so I suppose we got many things wrong!) and they were very moving.
And how about a Muslim seder in the White House?
I can see how there would be strong feelings about this; and the only way to counter it would be --- it seems to me --- strengthening the traditional meaning and reinforcing it constantly within your own community.
It seems to me, though, that ALL of Christianity is a reformulation of, or a competing interpretation of, Judaism. It would be hard to find an element that isn't. I was certainly taught (and rightly, I think) to "interpret" the whole body of Hebrew Scriptures "in the light of Christ."
Moreover, much of Protestantism is, it seems to me, a latching onto Catholic things to make them "mean something else." Again, this is so pervasive that to catalogue it adequately would take hundreds of pages.
There's no stopping it, and no use taking offense. The only response is in constantly reinforcing your own defining lines, in higher contrast.
Quote: Why would any Jews be outraged by Christian seders?
Maybe it’ll embarrass my liberal Obama loving compatriots to actually finish the second half
And you wonder why Jews are weary/not-trusting of Christians....geez
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/biblical.html
Happy Pesach to all my JEWISH brothers and sisters!
Yasher Koach!
The issue comes in with the group of Messianics that is trying to make the traditions of the seder mean something else. We have been told every year for centuries what the matzoh means; I'm not happy to hear a Messianic group proclaiming that they know what Jewish traditions mean better than centuries of Jews do.
Our church does a Seder led by a Messianic group every year. Let me assure you that the Messianics are not changing the meaning of the Seder. What they do is give a short class before the Seder on how the passover meal points to Christ. After that they do the Seder exactly as the Jews do without anything added or any mention of Jesus what so ever. (All of these Seders may not follow this format, but the ones I have attended do.)
Christians and Messianics have always looked at the old testament, the Seder, the Jewish wedding ceremonies and other Jewish traditions in the context of how they all point to Christ. Being Christians it is impossible for us to see it any other way. We believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and if our faith is to have any legitimacy at all it must therefore be irrevocably tied to that of the Jews. And if Jesus is both man and God then everything must point to Him.
I don’t understand your post.
There are several parts to the seder i.e kadesh, orhatz, karpas ,yachatz, maggid etc.
most non-Orthodox Jews stop after the meal and skip the second half. I wondered if people and Christian seders do the whole thing.
anyway a ziesen pesach
BTW,fwiw my original comment was akin to the theme of Yonah
Many believe in the Word of G-dshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Where Yah'shua commanded us to re-celebrate YHvH's commanded Pesach.Luke 22:19 And when He had taken some breadThe YHvH commanded Pesach Seder which Yah'shua re-commanded
and given thanks,
He broke it and gave it to them, saying,
"This is My body which is given for you;
do this in remembrance of Me."
was rejected and condemned by the Council of Nicea.
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