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Are Anti-Mormons Christians?
FAIR ^ | Russell McGregor

Posted on 03/16/2010 10:51:13 AM PDT by Paragon Defender

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To: Saundra Duffy
Do you remember when you said that lds were persecuted. Something about a friend had a glass of water thrown on her.
This is persecution: http://www.anglicandioceseofjos.org/dogo.html
241 posted on 03/16/2010 6:31:06 PM PDT by svcw (Jesus comforts the uncomfortable and makes uncomfortable the comfortable.)
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To: filospinato
Huh, well, that’s my core belief and I am LDS.

What are your peripheral beliefs?

We can find 'republicans' all day long that have the same CORE beliefs as Conservatives, and then have a whole lot of OTHER things they 'believe' that show their true colors.

242 posted on 03/16/2010 6:31:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
why would I do that? You give the threads some comic relief, that is, till our resident x-mormon atheist shows up, then we have two clowns to laugh at!

How Christlike of you. You prove why my Jesus is better than your Jesus. lol.

243 posted on 03/16/2010 6:31:50 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: metmom

I guess they really take to heart that “whores of Babylon” thing Joe said.


244 posted on 03/16/2010 6:32:05 PM PDT by svcw (Jesus comforts the uncomfortable and makes uncomfortable the comfortable.)
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To: ejonesie22
Of course as the LDS con was developed and the power of promising godhood as a sales tool became apparent, that all had to be kicked to the curb, which in this case means using the old tried and true Pee Wee Herman "No I didn't" methodology which is standard LDS SOP.




I don't know that we teach it

In case you don't recognize the title of this post, it is part of President Hinckley's answer to a reporter's question that appeared in the August 4 1997 issue of Time magazine. The reporter referenced the King Follett discourse. The answer supplied and the manner in which it was delivered caused the reporter to draw some false conclusions about a very important doctrine.

In that discourse, the prophet Joseph Smith said, "If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man." (See also D&C 130:22)

The article referred to Lorenzo Snow's couplet, "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become." The reporter said, "God the Father was once a man as we are. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing." President Hinckley was then asked, "Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?"

The bothersome reply

"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

The reporter wrote, "On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain." That's an unfortunate conclusion. Of course I wasn't at the interview and neither were you but I'll bet the reporter mistook careful thoughtfulness for uncertainty. This doctrine is indeed deep territory and not something that is taught outside the LDS Church.



An earlier and similar interview

The San Francisco Chronicle, published an interview with President Hinckley in April of 1997. The reporter asked, "There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormon's believe that God was once a man?" President Hinckley responded, "I wouldn't say that. There is a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'"

He then said, "Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about." The reporter pounced on this. "So you're saying that the church is still struggling to understand this? " President Hinckley responded, "Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly."

President Hinckley's response

President Hinckley said in October 1997 General Conference: "I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that's to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine.

"I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church." And there lies the whole point of my post today. Some members did indeed become a little concerned by the exchanges they read in the press reports of those interviews.

Does the Church still teach this?

I know this is old news but it still bothers some people when they discover the anti-Mormon attacks floating around on the Internet. President Hinckley was right. We really don't know much about how our Heavenly Father became a God. The idea that he passed through a mortal probationary state like you and me is certainly not documented in any scripture of which I know.

However, it is still taught. In the Gospel Principles manual in the chapter on exaltation we read, "Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)."

Summary and conclusion

I don't know why this should bother anyone. The doctrine is true. Joseph Smith knew a whole lot more about this than I do. President Hinckley also knew a whole lot more about this doctrine than he was willing to share with reporters who did not have the background to understand it. It must have been difficult for President Hinckley to hold back and not teach it in those interviews.

It didn't bother me when I read the interviews back in 1997 and it doesn't bother me today. However, I know it does bother some people. We each have trials of our faith. I have never depended on an intellectual understanding of the gospel in order to accept it and live it. There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith.

 



 There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith. alrighty then!!!

 

 

 


245 posted on 03/16/2010 6:33:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Are you capable of having any thoughts of your own or are you performing for your imaginary groupies again? lol. Oh I know. Perhaps you’re spamming your way into heaven.


246 posted on 03/16/2010 6:35:30 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Pecos
 
And, as I remember, there was a whole lot of killing that went on between Catholics and Protestants on that same question. After y’all get things COMPLETELY sorted out, let me know. In the mean time, I’ll lay down and take a nap since it’s going to take you a while.....
 
 
Can you tell if these are Catholic or Protestant verses?


Acts 2:42
  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
 
 
 Acts 4:2
 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.
 
 
Acts 5:42
  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.
 
 
Acts 13:1
  In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.
 
 
 Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.
 
 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

247 posted on 03/16/2010 6:36:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 999replies

And very accurate; too.


248 posted on 03/16/2010 6:37:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 999replies
I cannot believe you waste so much energy against mormons and their church.

Believe it.

When the doubts come in the night Iand they will) just remember where you heard the Truth.

249 posted on 03/16/2010 6:41:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Grunthor
 
What’s the point of sending those young men door to door in our communities to try and convert people to mormonism then?


 
 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

250 posted on 03/16/2010 6:42:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
You know they really are funny.

In a pathetic little way..

251 posted on 03/16/2010 6:45:10 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: Normandy

I am much more concerned about how God thinks of me.

I want to follow Jesus, yes, the same Jesus who we read about in the New Testament.

- - - - - - -
Then you share the same concern I do, and I am sorry but the LDS Jesus (created being, had to earn his godhood, one of 3 gods, bore sin in the Garden not on the Cross and thus didn’t NEED to die, killed thousands in America during His Crucifixion, is our ‘creditor’) is NOT, IN ANY WAY the Jesus of the Bible. At all. And worshiping a false Christ will NOT lead to salvation in ANY WAY any more than it will save Muslims.

I also know exactly who the LDS believe in and I find it rather strange that they keep insisting they are just ‘another Christian denomination’. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I hope you see where I am coming from. I will not quietly sit by and let people be dragged down to Hell because they think they belong to the ‘one true church’.

Best,

R


252 posted on 03/16/2010 6:45:20 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Hootowl

There you go - using FACTS to point out the truth!


253 posted on 03/16/2010 6:46:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Every post you put “lol”. So I keep wondering, you can’t possible mean laugh out loud, because in most cases it makes zero sense to your reply. Then I realized you really mean “little old ladies” and then it because clear.


254 posted on 03/16/2010 6:47:10 PM PDT by svcw (Jesus comforts the uncomfortable and makes uncomfortable the comfortable.)
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To: metmom

What really annoys me is that they will not take no for an answer.

- - - - - - -
Tell them you are an ‘ex-mormon’. They will walk on the other side of the street for MONTHS or longer (at least the mishies in our area do).


255 posted on 03/16/2010 6:47:32 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: JAKraig
 
 If the protestant churches say the Catholic church went astray how can they (protestant) be perfect if they came from a broken church.
 

 
 
Welcome folks, to our daily session of Theological discussions about Mormonism: Is it Christian?
 
 
 
 
 
 
Feel free to enter the talks at any time.
 
If you get dizzy, feel free to leave at any point.
 
All points are valid;
and, all points will be discussed.
 
 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd_ucRdLLf4&NR=1

 

256 posted on 03/16/2010 6:48:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw; metmom

I guess they really take to heart that “whores of Babylon” thing Joe said.

- - - - - -
I did when I was training for MY LDS mission.


257 posted on 03/16/2010 6:48:39 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: JAKraig; FatherofFive; restornu
So when, exactly, did the Church stop teaching the Truth and go into apostasy? Should be an easy question.

An EASIER one should be:

Just what did Joseph Smith learn to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?

258 posted on 03/16/2010 6:51:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 999replies; Elsie
I cannot believe you waste so much energy against mormons and their church.

Believe it 999. These people spend more time obsessing about how their Jesus is better than somebody else's Jesus that they seem to not bother to take time and learn how to behave according to their own precepts. Its a disconcerting yet entertaining (like watching a trainwreck) show to behold. :-)

259 posted on 03/16/2010 6:51:46 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: svcw
Every post you put “lol”. So I keep wondering, you can’t possible mean laugh out loud, because in most cases it makes zero sense to your reply. Then I realized you really mean “little old ladies” and then it because clear.

Oh come on. Its my own silly way of feeding you trolls. "lol"

260 posted on 03/16/2010 6:52:47 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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