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Why Does Glenn Beck Hate Jesus?
Time.com ^ | March 14, 2010 | Amy Sullivan

Posted on 03/15/2010 12:07:15 PM PDT by Colofornian

Edited on 03/23/2010 6:15:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

click here to read article


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To: urroner

i did it for two reasons - firstly your mind is made up - I was merely answering your illogical premise that mormonism springs from the same fount - and with but a few words - I demonstrated that....secondly - not to rehash, as it a pearls before swine thing....


481 posted on 03/20/2010 5:22:04 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: urroner
Your grasp of the obvious is truly astounding. Rev 911, please tell me something I haven’t heard over and over again.

are you in a mood to listen?....to really listen....or is your heart hardened?

482 posted on 03/20/2010 5:28:17 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: urroner

now with regard to “Appeal to tradition” . what specifically are you referring? - the creeds or something else?


483 posted on 03/20/2010 5:29:38 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: urroner
You and your type have been trying to hijack the word “Christian” and you’re failing.
 
 
It appears that MORMON leaders have a LOW 'opinion' of CHRISTIANS!


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 
 
And, continuing thru the years, the high ranking leaders of that Organization have done the same!
 
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
 

 
Only just lately have the MORMONs seem to WANT be called Christians now.
 
Can't find ANYTHING in their doctrine that has changed to warrent this attitude shift; however.

484 posted on 03/20/2010 7:48:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: urroner
 
I don’t think you are a car, but I do think that you are being silly.


THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 109
 
Prayer offered at the dedication of the temple at Kirtland, Ohio, March 27, 1836. HC 2: 420–426. According to the Prophet’s written statement, this prayer was given to him by revelation.
1–5, Kirtland Temple built as a place for the Son of Man to visit; 6–21, It is to be a house of prayer, fasting, faith, learning, glory, and order, and a house of God; 22–33, May the unrepentant who oppose the Lord’s people be confounded; 34–42, May the saints go forth in power to gather the righteous to Zion; 43–53, May the saints be delivered from the terrible things to be poured out upon the wicked in the last days; 54–58, May nations and peoples and churches be prepared for the gospel; 59–67, May the Jews, the Lamanites, and all Israel be redeemed; 68–80, May the saints be crowned with glory and honor and gain eternal salvation.
 
  1 aThanks be to thy name, O Lord God of Israel, who keepest bcovenant and showest mercy unto thy servants who walk uprightly before thee, with all their hearts—
  2 Thou who hast commanded thy servants to abuild a house to thy name in this place [Kirtland].
  3 And now thou beholdest, O Lord, that thy servants have done according to thy commandment.
  4 And now we ask thee, Holy Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of thy bosom, in whose name alone salvation can be administered to the children of men, we ask thee, O Lord, to accept of this ahouse, the bworkmanship of the hands of us, thy servants, which thou didst command us to build.
  5 For thou knowest that we have done this work through great tribulation; and out of our poverty we have agiven of our substance to build a bhouse to thy name, that the Son of Man might have a place to cmanifest himself to his people.
  6 And as thou hast said in a arevelation, given to us, calling us thy friends, saying—Call your solemn assembly, as I have commanded you;
  7 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best abooks words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and also by faith;
  8 Organize yourselves; aprepare every needful thing, and establish a house, even a bhouse of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of corder, a dhouse of God;
  9 That your aincomings may be in the name of the Lord, that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord, that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High—
  10 And now, Holy Father, we ask thee to assist us, thy people, with thy grace, in calling our asolemn assembly, that it may be done to thine honor and to thy divine acceptance;
  11 And in a manner that we may be found worthy, in thy sight, to secure a fulfilment of the apromises which thou hast made unto us, thy people, in the revelations given unto us;
  12 That thy aglory may rest down upon thy people, and upon this thy house, which we now dedicate to thee, that it may be sanctified and consecrated to be holy, and that thy holy presence may be continually in this house;
  13 And that all people who shall enter upon the threshold of the Lord’s house may feel thy power, and feel constrained to acknowledge that thou hast sanctified it, and that it is thy house, a aplace of thy holiness.
  14 And do thou grant, Holy Father, that all those who shall worship in this house may be taught words of wisdom out of the best abooks, and that they may seek learning even by study, and also by faith, as thou hast said;
  15 And that they may grow up in thee, and receive a fulness of the Holy Ghost, and be organized according to thy laws, and be prepared to obtain every needful thing;
  16 And that this house may be a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of glory and of God, even thy house;
  17 That all the incomings of thy people, into this house, may be in the name of the Lord;
  18 That all their outgoings from this house may be in the name of the Lord;
  19 And that all their salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with holy hands, uplifted to the Most High;
  20 And that no aunclean thing shall be permitted to come into thy house to bpollute it;
  21 And when thy people atransgress, any of them, they may speedily repent and return unto thee, and find favor in thy sight, and be restored to the blessings which thou hast ordained to be poured out upon those who shall breverence thee in thy house.
  22 And we ask thee, Holy Father, that thy servants may go forth from this house armed with thy power, and that thy aname may be upon them, and thy glory be round about them, and thine bangels have charge over them;
  23 And from this place they may bear exceedingly great and glorious tidings, in truth, unto the aends of the earth, that they may know that this is thy work, and that thou hast put forth thy hand, to fulfil that which thou hast spoken by the mouths of the prophets, concerning the last days.
  24 We ask thee, Holy Father, to establish the people that shall worship, and honorably hold a name and standing in this thy house, to all generations and for eternity;
  25 That no weapon aformed against them shall prosper; that he who diggeth a bpit for them shall fall into the same himself;
  26 That no combination of wickedness shall have power to rise up and aprevail over thy people upon whom thy bname shall be put in this house;
  27 And if any people shall rise against this people, that thine anger be kindled against them;
  28 And if they shall smite this people thou wilt smite them; thou wilt afight for thy people as thou didst in the day of battle, that they may be delivered from the hands of all their enemies.
  29 We ask thee, Holy Father, to confound, and astonish, and to bring to ashame and confusion, all those who have spread blying reports abroad, over the world, against thy servant or servants, if they will not repent, when the everlasting gospel shall be proclaimed in their ears;
  30 And that all their works may be brought to naught, and be swept away by the ahail, and by the judgments which thou wilt send upon them in thine anger, that there may be an end to blyings and slanders against thy people.
  31 For thou knowest, O Lord, that thy servants have been innocent before thee in abearing record of thy name, for which they have suffered these things.
  32 Therefore we plead before thee for a full and complete adeliverance from under this byoke;
  33 Break it off, O Lord; break it off from the necks of thy servants, by thy power, that we may rise up in the midst of this generation and do thy work.
  34 O Jehovah, have mercy upon this people, and as all men asin forgive the transgressions of thy people, and let them be blotted out forever.
  35 Let the aanointing of thy ministers be sealed upon them with power from on high.
  36 Let it be fulfilled upon them, as upon those on the day of Pentecost; let the gift of atongues be poured out upon thy people, even bcloven tongues as of fire, and the interpretation thereof.
  37 And let thy house be filled, as with a rushing mighty awind, with thy bglory.
  38 Put upon thy servants the atestimony of the covenant, that when they go out and proclaim thy word they may bseal up the law, and prepare the hearts of thy saints for all those judgments thou art about to send, in thy wrath, upon the inhabitants of the cearth, because of their transgressions, that thy people may not faint in the day of trouble.
  39 And whatsoever city thy servants shall enter, and the people of that city areceive their testimony, let thy peace and thy salvation be upon that city; that they may gather out of that city the righteous, that they may come forth to bZion, or to her stakes, the places of thine appointment, with songs of everlasting joy;
  40 And until this be accomplished, let not thy judgments fall upon that city.
  41 And whatsoever city thy servants shall enter, and the people of that city receive not the testimony of thy servants, and thy servants warn them to save themselves from this untoward generation, let it be upon that city according to that which thou hast spoken by the mouths of thy prophets.
  42 But deliver thou, O Jehovah, we beseech thee, thy servants from their hands, and acleanse them from their blood.
  43 O Lord, we delight not in the destruction of our fellow men; their asouls are precious before thee;
  44 But thy word must be fulfilled. Help thy servants to say, with thy agrace assisting them: Thy will be done, O Lord, and not ours.
  45 We know that thou hast spoken by the mouth of thy prophets terrible things concerning the awicked, in the last days—that thou wilt pour out thy judgments, without measure;
  46 Therefore, O Lord, deliver thy people from the calamity of the wicked; enable thy servants to seal up the law, and abind up the testimony, that they may be prepared against the day of burning.
  47 We ask thee, Holy Father, to remember those who have been adriven by the inhabitants of Jackson county, Missouri, from the lands of their inheritance, and break off, O Lord, this byoke of affliction that has been put upon them.
  48 Thou knowest, O Lord, that they have been greatly aoppressed and afflicted by wicked men; and our bhearts flow out with sorrow because of their grievous cburdens.
  49 O Lord, ahow long wilt thou suffer this people to bear this affliction, and the bcries of their innocent ones to ascend up in thine ears, and their cblood come up in testimony before thee, and not make a display of thy testimony in their behalf?
  50 Have amercy, O Lord, upon the wicked mob, who have driven thy people, that they may cease to spoil, that they may repent of their sins if repentance is to be found;
  51 But if they will not, make bare thine arm, O Lord, and aredeem that which thou didst appoint a Zion unto thy people.
  52 And if it cannot be otherwise, that the cause of thy people may not fail before thee may thine anger be kindled, and thine aindignation fall upon them, that they may be wasted away, both root and branch, from under heaven;
  53 But inasmuch as they will repent, thou art agracious and merciful, and wilt turn away thy wrath when thou lookest upon the face of thine Anointed.
  54 Have mercy, O Lord, upon all the anations of the earth; have mercy upon the rulers of our land; may those principles, which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely, the bConstitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever.
  55 aRemember the kings, the princes, the nobles, and the great ones of the earth, and all people, and the churches, all the poor, the needy, and afflicted ones of the earth;
  56 That their hearts may be softened when thy servants shall go out from thy house, O Jehovah, to bear testimony of thy name; that their prejudices may give way before the atruth, and thy people may obtain favor in the sight of all;
  57 That all the ends of the earth may know that we, thy servants, have aheard thy voice, and that thou hast sent us;
  58 That from among all these, thy servants, the sons of Jacob, may gather out the righteous to build a holy acity to thy name, as thou hast commanded them.
  59 We ask thee to appoint unto Zion other astakes besides this one which thou hast appointed, that the gathering of thy bpeople may roll on in great power and majesty, that thy work may be cut cshort in righteousness.
  60 Now these words, O Lord, we have spoken before thee, concerning the revelations and commandments which thou hast given unto us, who are identified with the aGentiles.
  61 But thou knowest that thou hast a great love for the children of Jacob, who have been ascattered upon the bmountains for a long time, in a ccloudy and dark day.
  62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that aJerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;
  63 And the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of aDavid;
  64 And the children of aJudah may begin to return to the blands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.
  65 And cause that the aremnants of Jacob, who have been cursed and smitten because of their transgression, be bconverted from their wild and savage condition to the fulness of the everlasting gospel;
  66 That they may lay down their weapons of bloodshed, and cease their rebellions.
  67 And may all the scattered remnants of aIsrael, who have been driven to the ends of the earth, come to a knowledge of the truth, believe in the Messiah, and be redeemed from boppression, and rejoice before thee.
  68 O Lord, remember thy servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., and all his afflictions and persecutions—how he has acovenanted with bJehovah, and vowed to thee, O Mighty God of Jacob—and the commandments which thou hast given unto him, and that he hath sincerely striven to do thy will.
  69 Have mercy, O Lord, upon his awife and children, that they may be exalted in thy presence, and preserved by thy fostering hand.
  70 Have mercy upon all their aimmediate connections, that their prejudices may be broken up and swept away as with a flood; that they may be bconverted and redeemed with Israel, and know that thou art God.
  71 Remember, O Lord, the presidents, even all the presidents of thy church, that thy right hand may exalt them, with all their families, and their immediate connections, that their names may be perpetuated and had in everlasting remembrance from generation to generation.
  72 Remember all thy church, O Lord, with all their families, and all their immediate connections, with all their sick and afflicted ones, with all the poor and meek of the earth; that the akingdom, which thou hast set up without hands, may become a great mountain and fill the whole earth;
  73 That thy achurch may come forth out of the wilderness of darkness, and shine forth fair as the bmoon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners;
  74 And be adorned as a bride for that day when thou shalt unveil the heavens, and cause the mountains to aflow down at thy presence, and the bvalleys to be exalted, the rough places made smooth; that thy glory may fill the earth;
  75 That when the trump shall sound for the dead, we shall be acaught up in the cloud to meet thee, that we may ever be with the Lord;
  76 That our garments may be pure, that we may be clothed upon with arobes of brighteousness, with palms in our hands, and ccrowns of glory upon our heads, and reap eternal djoy for all our esufferings.
  77 O Lord God Almighty, hear us in these our petitions, and answer us from heaven, thy holy habitation, where thou sittest enthroned, with aglory, honor, power, majesty, might, dominion, truth, justice, judgment, mercy, and an infinity of fulness, from everlasting to everlasting.
  78 O hear, O hear, O hear us, O Lord! And answer these petitions, and accept the adedication of this house unto thee, the bwork of our hands, which we have built unto thy name;
  79 And also this church, to put upon it thy aname. And help us by the power of thy Spirit, that we may bmingle our voices with those bright, shining cseraphs around thy throne, with acclamations of dpraise, singing Hosanna to God and the eLamb!
  80 And let these, thine aanointed ones, be clothed with salvation, and thy saints bshout aloud for joy. Amen, and Amen.

485 posted on 03/20/2010 7:50:34 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: urroner
And, just because you insist that I’m not a Christian, does that make it so?

The MORMON Headquarters, in Salt Lake City, INSIST that the Flds folks in Texas are NOT mormon - does THAT make it so?

486 posted on 03/20/2010 7:52:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: urroner
Mighty Christian of you to judge me and find me so wanton.
 
The BIBLE has judged MORMONism and found it wanting...


KJV
 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
 
 
 
ANYBODY???
 
Like this fine looking fellow???
 
 
 
 
 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
 

Like THESE guys??
 
 
 
 
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
 
 

wanton: sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar.
The OTHER times;
Who knows....

487 posted on 03/20/2010 7:54:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: urroner
Have you ever heard of the logical fallacy known as “appeal to tradition?

I've heard of the fallacy known as "Becasue Joseph Smith said so". Is that similar?

488 posted on 03/20/2010 7:55:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: urroner
 
I posted earlier about the logical fallacy of “Appeal to Tradition,”
 
 
Folks; I guess we'd better throw away all of these verses...


Acts 2:42
  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
 
 
 Acts 4:2
 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.
 
 
Acts 5:42
  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.
 
 
Acts 13:1
  In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.
 
 
 Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.
 
 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachingsjust as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

489 posted on 03/20/2010 8:00:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Comment #490 Removed by Moderator

To: urroner

Nominal Christian, .... You call yourself a Christian also, but just because you call yourself one, why should I accept it as being the truth. You, in your great humility and righteousness, have reserved yourself and others like you the right to determine who is and who isn’t Christian.

- - - - - - —
Nominal Christian as in those who call themselves Christian but only in a cultural/social/ancestral way. It also covers people who do not have a personal relationship with Christ but are ‘religious’ instead.

The LDS keep trying to make themselves the arbiter of who is Christian. The LDS worship a different Christ than the Bible teaches, we can’t both be right, and I am a Christian based upon the Bible, not Joseph Smith.


491 posted on 03/20/2010 10:06:08 PM PDT by reaganaut
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To: urroner

It is not an ‘appeal to tradition’, it is an appeal to the authority of Scripture (the Bible). The Bible lays out the Gospel and those who deviate from it (like the LDS) are not Christian.

And using Wiki as a source? Please. ROFL.


492 posted on 03/20/2010 10:08:35 PM PDT by reaganaut
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To: urroner; Revelation 911

You assume that the Trinity, monotheism and Cross atonement, are simply ‘tradition’.

You haven’t proven that they are. Christians understand that they are Biblical which is why they became the bedrock of Christian doctrine.


493 posted on 03/20/2010 10:11:27 PM PDT by reaganaut
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To: Revelation 911

LDS arrogance never ceases to amaze me.


494 posted on 03/20/2010 10:12:04 PM PDT by reaganaut
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To: reaganaut; urroner

Hey, I get to use this one:

In 1958, McConkie wrote:

In the pre-existent eternity various degrees of valiance and devotion to the truth were exhibited by different groups of our Father’s spirit offspring. One-third of the spirit hosts of heaven came out in open rebellion and were cast out without bodies, becoming the devil and his angels. The other two-thirds stood affirmatively for Christ: there were no neutrals. To stand neutral in the midst of war is a philosophical impossibility.

Of the two-thirds who followed Christ, however, some were more valiant than others. Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes.

Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The present status of the negro rests purely and simply on the foundation of pre-existence. Along with all races and peoples he is receiving here what he merits as a result of the long pre-mortal probation in the presence of the Lord. The principle is the same as will apply when all men are judged according to their mortal works and are awarded varying statuses in the life hereafter.

To compound the hypocrisy of LDS and their contrived conveniences:

On June 1, 1978, McConkie was present in the Salt Lake Temple when a revelation was received by the First Presidency and the Twelve “that the time had now come to extend the gospel and all its blessings and all its obligations, including the priesthood and the blessings of the house of the Lord, to those of every nation, culture and race, including the black race.”[6] This revelation was announced to the world on June 8, 1978.

McConkie’s earlier statements on the topic, like those of other other church leaders, implied or overtly stated that the priesthood restriction would never be lifted. To this, McConkie stated:

There are statements in our literature by the early Brethren that we have interpreted to mean that the Negroes would not receive the priesthood in mortality. I have said the same things, and people write me letters and say, “You said such and such, and how is it now that we do such and such?” All I can say is that it is time disbelieving people repented and got in line and believed in a living, modern prophet. Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or George Q. Cannon or whoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.

It doesn’t make a particle of difference what anybody ever said about the Negro matter before the first day of June 1978. It is a new day and a new arrangement, and the Lord has now given the revelation that sheds light out into the world on this subject. As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them. We now do what meridian Israel did when the Lord said the gospel should go to the Gentiles. We forget all the statements that limited the gospel to the house of Israel, and we start going to the Gentiles.

I will note that this came about as the Church was directed by the courts, under the cloud of a lawsuit alleging racial discrimination and denying ordination of blacks into the priesthood.

Further, black were denied endowment ritual and temple marriages and family sealings.

Instead of complying with the courts demand, they had a “New Revelation” and settled out of court.

Now I ask:
Is God the God all people and did he not make us all equal in his eyes when he declared “For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God”.

He doesn’t equivocate and doesn’t single anyone out for special rights of ascension to heaven and yet here is LDS in doctrine singling out at least half the world as spiritually defective by nature of their so called progenitors.

How could God call into doctrine this belief and then suddenly change his mind or reveal a new time once Frederick Douglas had passed into the history books, Brown vs board or the 1964 civil rights act?

Why would he wait until then to reveal he is the God of all and all should enjoy the same privileges of the church. Well, with the exception of restricted celestial covenants, equality of celestial marriage or that their earthly Priesthood would not carry into the celestial kingdom?


495 posted on 03/20/2010 11:22:36 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Vendome

Of the two-thirds who followed Christ, however, some were more valiant than others. Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes.

- - - - - - -

That is disgusting.

I got news for McConkie, God isn’t a racist.

And a member of a religion that changed its racist policies to avoid a lawsuit has the nerve to claim that they are the ‘true’ Christians and we are ‘apostates’.


496 posted on 03/21/2010 12:07:57 AM PDT by reaganaut
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To: Revelation 911

Gosh, I’m bad because my mind is made up. Rev 911, isn’t your mind made up also? The only reason why it’s illogical to you is because your mind is made up and you refuse to accept any alternatives. Pot, kettle.


497 posted on 03/21/2010 3:52:55 AM PDT by urroner
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To: reaganaut
i'd cite Scripture in every instance - but are you willing to read it or argue

Is your heart so hard?

Ex 20:3

Deu 5:7

both speak to the Monotheistic nature of God. There are no equals

That is Scriptural, not "tradition"

Matt 3:16-17

Matt 17:5

Both demonstrate three aspects...God, the Spirit, & his Son, the Christ

That is Scriptural

1 Cor 1:17-18

Gal 6:12

Gal 6:14

Phil 2:8

Col 1:20

Col 2:14

Heb 12:2

All speak to the action of the Crucifixion on the Cross as being the cornerstone for his sacrifice

That is Scriptural....not "tradition"

can you see it through the lens darkly?

498 posted on 03/21/2010 3:56:33 AM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: Elsie

Elsie, I don’t read cut and paste, especially if they are long. Just a heads up.


499 posted on 03/21/2010 3:57:16 AM PDT by urroner
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To: urroner
My mind draws conclusion from the information placed before me - In this case - it is the body of separate books that comprise the Bible - however - from your perspective, it is accurate only as written.....

One perspective acknowledges God as being powerful enough to convey his message through mere men....the mormon position limits God by limiting His influence upon men in their ability to convey the message.....despite the manuscript evidence to the contrary

500 posted on 03/21/2010 4:01:25 AM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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