Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: wmfights

Might want to do a search on “woman” in your redacted Bible. You will find that what you are claiming is a derogatory is associated with the final triumph. How folks can read the Bible and be so ignorant is amazing.

Book of Revelation 12:1-18:[3]

1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth: and was in pain to be delivered. 3 And there was seen another sign in heaven. And behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns and on his heads seven diadems. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered: that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her son was taken up to God and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her, a thousand two hundred sixty days.

7 And there was a great battle in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought, and his angels. 8 And they prevailed not: neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world. And he was cast unto the earth: and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of the testimony: and they loved not their lives unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man child. 14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert, unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth, after the woman, water, as it were a river: that he might cause her to be carried away by the river. 16 And the earth helped the woman: and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 18 And he stood upon the sand of the sea.’’


24 posted on 03/14/2010 5:38:33 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]


To: big'ol_freeper; wmfights
And in Koine Greek (and I understand also in Aramaic) "woman" is a term of respect. "Woman, behold thy son!" Remember also that Jesus asked Mary Magdalen when she saw Him in the garden (and thought he was the gardener), "Woman, why weepest thou?"

For what it's worth, in Scots Gaelic the old time Highlander addressed his mother as "O Woman" - "A Bhean". I went and checked my Gaelic Testament and it's the same in the Gospels.

32 posted on 03/14/2010 6:36:25 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies ]

To: big'ol_freeper

Mary - the evidence of scripture

The following lists the accounts of Jesus saying something to or about Mary:

The first 3 are different accounts of the same event.

“46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” - Matt 12

31 Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. 32 And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You.” 33 But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” 34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” - Mark 3

19 Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. 20 And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.” 21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” - Luke 8

In this account, a woman sought to give honor to Mary:

“While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.” He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” — Luke 11

I’ll note here that the NAB footnotes say, “The beatitude in Luke 11:28 should not be interpreted as a rebuke of the mother of Jesus; see the note on Luke 8:21. Rather, it emphasizes (like Luke 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.”

There is the Wedding at Cana:

1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4 Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.”...You have kept the good wine until now!”...12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days. — John 2

The Catholic footnote in the NAB: “4 [4] This verse may seek to show that Jesus did not work miracles to help his family and friends, as in the apocryphal gospels. Woman: a normal, polite form of address, but unattested in reference to one’s mother. Cf also John 19:26. How does your concern affect me?: literally, “What is this to me and to you?”—a Hebrew expression of either hostility (Judges 11:12; 2 Chron 35:21; 1 Kings 17:18) or denial of common interest (Hosea 14:9; 2 Kings 3:13). Cf Mark 1:24; 5:7 used by demons to Jesus. My hour has not yet come: the translation as a question (”Has not my hour now come?”), while preferable grammatically and supported by Greek Fathers, seems unlikely from a comparison with John 7:6, 30. The “hour” is that of Jesus’ passion, death, resurrection, and ascension (John 13:1).”

And finally, we have the scene at the cross:

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. — John 19

A few points seem significant:

1) Jesus never calls her “Mother”, let alone “Queen of Heaven’ or “Spouse of the Holy Spirit”. He only calls her “Woman”. Even Catholic scholars say, “Woman: a normal, polite form of address, but unattested in reference to one’s mother. Cf also John 19:26. How does your concern affect me?: literally, “What is this to me and to you?”—a Hebrew expression of either hostility (Judges 11:12; 2 Chron 35:21; 1 Kings 17:18) or denial of common interest (Hosea 14:9; 2 Kings 3:13). Cf Mark 1:24; 5:7 used by demons to Jesus.”

2) There is only one example in scripture of Mary being exalted by a human - Luke 11.28 Not only does Jesus not concur, but He actively denies the attention paid to Mary: “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

3) Cana ends with this statement: “After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days.” This is one of several verses indicating tension between Jesus and his family - including his mother.

4) When Mary doubted Jesus

Mark 3 provides more detail than covered earlier.

“He came home. Again (the) crowd gathered, making it impossible for them even to eat. When his relatives heard of this they set out to seize him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”...His mother and his brothers arrived. Standing outside they sent word to him and called him.

A crowd seated around him told him, “Your mother and your brothers (and your sisters) are outside asking for you.” But he said to them in reply, “Who are my mother and (my) brothers?” And looking around at those seated in the circle he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. (For) whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother.”

It is also important to note what comes between the verse “When his relatives heard of this they set out to seize him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.” and “His mother and his brothers arrived.”

Between his family setting out “to seize them” because “he is out of his mind”, and their arrival, the scribes echo his family’s concerns - “The scribes who had come from Jerusalem said, ‘He is possessed by Beelzebul’...” - and it is here that Jesus teaches on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

And those who wish to exalt Mary ought to pay attention that it wasn’t just his “brothers” who came for him, but “His mother and his brothers”. The Catholic footnotes in the NAB state, “8 [20-35] Within the narrative of the coming of Jesus’ relatives (Mark 3:20-21) is inserted the account of the unbelieving scribes from Jerusalem who attributed Jesus’ power over demons to Beelzebul (Mark 3:22-30); see the note on Mark 5:21-43. There were those even among the relatives of Jesus who disbelieved and regarded Jesus as out of his mind (Mark 3:21). Against this background, Jesus is informed of the arrival of his mother and brothers [and sisters] (Mark 3:32). He responds by showing that not family ties but doing God’s will (35) is decisive in the kingdom; cf the note on Matthew 12:46-50.”

She was listed in the believers meeting in Acts 1 (”14All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers”) - after which she drops from view.

Jesus didn’t call her “Woman” because HE was disrespectful. The only reason Jesus would treat her thus is to emphasize her humanity - not Queen of Heaven, not the Holy Spirit’s Wife - but the human vessel chosen by God for His purposes.

The passages I’ve cited are, to say the least, less ambiguous than Rev 12...


63 posted on 03/14/2010 7:38:34 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson