A Protestant Discovers Mary

NC Register ^ | March 13, 2010

[Cronos]

Oh, I'm not going to discredit the author as it's not the author's fault you've used sola interpretura and misunderstood (this is a common thing with sola scriptura, sola interpretura, sola excerptura types).

FACT: St. Ambrose WAS born into a Christian family --> look it up for yourself.

And yes, he wasn't baptised as an infant, because that was not widespread in the 3rd century until St. Augustine. You misunderstood that to say that "Not surprising coming from a man who went from being a pagan to a Bishop in your church in about 2 weeks time"

Now that is a common sola interpretura error which also plays out in the sola's folks's reading of The Bible -- you folks may read one thing like " St Ambrose was baptized, " and ASSUME that he was born a pagan. That error comes from not having a complete knowledge and presuming that the incomplete knowledge is complete -- you didn't lie, but you made an incorrect assumption based on incomplete and misunderstood facts. That is the folly of relying on an individuals (as opposed to a community of believers stretching back 2000 years) interpretation.

[stfassisi]

“”I find your
PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS.....””

There NOT my personal interpretations ,quix ,Yours are.
I am following the interpretations handed down through Apostolic succession through the ages and can back it up with Church Fathers writings who were involved in Bible canon,you can’t do the same.

You also have no single protestant unity on your personal interpretations of scripture-this is why there is so many sects of protestants all claiming truth of interpretations that disagree with each other.

Like it or not, these are the facts,dear friend

[betty boop]

OY!!! The TIME PROBLEM rears its "ugly head," yet again!!! Ad infinitum as it were.

The problem seems to consist of the fact that there was an insurmountable primary asymmetry at the very foundation of Creation. That asymmetry particularly relates to the problem of time. For God, there is no time. For He is eternal. For us, human beings, everything we experience is necessarily in time — for we have, by God's decision, been manifested into a divinely created reality that has spatial and temporal — "this world" — dimensions, manifesting in the famous 4D block of Newtonian observation.

Perhaps I digress. If so, sum up the digression and move on: I just try to remember all the above, and prayerfully receive whatever graces the Lord may bestow on me so to enlighten the subject under scrutiny, before I start shooting off my mouth.

Folks have been working on problems like this, centuries, nay millennia, before John Calvin or Martin Luther were born. Is it asking too much, to ask whether YOU appreciate that?

[Cronos]

There NOT my personal interpretations ,quix ,Yours are. I am following the interpretations handed down through Apostolic succession through the ages and can back it up with Church Fathers writings who were involved in Bible canon,you can’t do the same.

That is well put and a grace from God that the sola types have denied themselves. God gave us this community of believers stretching back 2000 years. He wants us to learn as a community (as an oral society would) and to learn from and WITH each other. Sola interpretura fails because an individual will always color facts with his/her own opinion (see post 281 for where wmfights makes that error and wmfights is in good company -- St Augustine, Origen, Tertullian, all wise men, made errors too), but a community especially one blessed by the FAther, protected by the Son and graced by the Holy SPirit for 2000 years does not err.

our laity or clergy may err as individuals, but Christ does not err and He has blessed and protected His Church for 2000 years while the man-made heresies from Marcionism to Manicheanism and now first-generation Protestantism are dying or dead. They were of man and do not last, but play out up to 500 years (as in another article). The modern heresies from the Pentecostals (formed in the early 1900s) to the Seventh Day Adventists (1844) to the Mormons (1850s) will have their day in the sun, but they will wither and die as they have no root in the Spirit but are man-made

[Quix]

Sounds like a very altered alternate reality to the one I’m familiar with.

[Quix]

Of course I ponder such things from . . . uhhhh . . .

time to time.

I must add, Dear Heart . . .

you seemed to know me much better before this thread.

Now it seems as though you haven’t known me near as well as I thought; else you’d not have said some of the things you’ve said of me or asked of me on this thread. Puzzling.

I think your . . . uhhh . . .

[time warning]

earlier self . . . knew me more accurately and better.

And I think I knew the . . . uhhh . . .

earlier Betty better than I know this later Betty.

Puzzling indeed.

[stfassisi]

“”now first-generation Protestantism are dying or dead. They were of man and do not last, but play out up to 500 years (as in another article). The modern heresies from the Pentecostals (formed in the early 1900s) to the Seventh Day Adventists (1844) to the Mormons (1850s) will have their day in the sun, but they will wither and die as they have no root in the Spirit but are man-made””

Good points-They have no concrete teaching to hold them together

Here is an example of this from the Southern Baptists Convention
http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfmpreamble.asp

(3) That any group of Baptists, large or small, have the inherent right to draw up for themselves and publish to the world a confession of their faith whenever they may think it advisable to do so.

Another words...make up your own faith

[stfassisi]

Sounds like a very altered alternate reality to the one I’m familiar with.

Sounds like you have trouble facing what makes sense, so you alter your idea of reality to convince yourself

[Marysecretary]

Thank you, dear heart. I sure need it.

[Cronos]

Now it seems as though you haven’t known me near as well as I thought; else you’d not have said some of the things you’ve said of me or asked of me on this thread.

Persecution/Messiah complex? hmm... this would be a good study for psychiatrists -- is that profession allowed in your grouping?

[Marysecretary]

He isn’t hounding or persecuting the true Mary, only the demonic apparitions that are deception ‘to the max.’

[Quix]

Not at all.

I do, however, have a habit of letting THE FACTS take me wherever they will.

I’m convinced that God is persistently on the side of TRUTH.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind understanding.

[stfassisi]

I do, however, have a habit of letting THE FACTS take me wherever they will.

Good! I will send you a confirmation gift when the facts lead you to become a Catholic

I wish you a Blessed evening!

[Marysecretary]

It’s because I KNOW your heart.

[John Leland 1789]

“I am not convinced that JESUS THE CHRIST HAS A MOTHER per se currently. He HAD a mother as an earthly human being. That period is past.”

---

To add . . . Jesus Christ is now in His GLORIFIED Body and seated at God’s Right Hand. Mary is not the “mother” of His glorified Body.

The Apostle Paul, in describing the current dispensation and our relationship to Christ in it, says, . . .

“Wherefore, HENCEFORTH know we no man after the FLESH: though we HAVE known Christ after the flesh, yet NOW HENCEFORTH know we him (Jesus Christ) NO MORE.” (2 Corinthians 5:16)

Our bond is to the Man at God’s Right Hand, and “old things are passed away.” (v. 17)

I am not, and cannot even be, convinced that there was any mandate during his earthly ministry -— “in the days of his flesh” (Hebrews 5:7 [interesting correlary between the two fifth chapters, Hebrews and 2 Corinthians]), that Mary was given the homage the Vatican wants her to be given. There is just no evidence nor example seen of it whatsoever in the gospel accounts (that is, Matthew through John).

And “NOW HENCEFORTH” (Epistles) even less!

[Cronos]

StF: There NOT my personal interpretations ,quix ,Yours are. I am following the interpretations handed down through Apostolic succession through the ages and can back it up with Church Fathers writings who were involved in Bible canon,you can’t do the same.

You also have no single protestant unity on your personal interpretations of scripture-this is why there is so many sects of protestants all claiming truth of interpretations that disagree with each other.

Quix Sounds like a very altered alternate reality to the one I’m familiar with

Dear Quix -- it is reality where Personal interpretations have gone against scripture -- where in 2 Pet 1:20, Peter says "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation" and in 2 Peter 3:15 to 16 he prophesies about the YOPIOS when he says "bear just as out dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction"

Private interpretation and instability in clinging tothe doctrines passed down from the apostles can thus result in one twisting Scripture to one's own sola interpretura desctruction.

As St. Paul says in 2 Timothy 2"2 "and the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others" and in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 "So then brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter" We are told that the first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles teachigns" (acts 2:42) which was the oral teaching that was given even before the New Testament was written

[Quix]

LOL.

I assume we’ll both laugh a good one over that in Heaven.

I consider it far more likely that you’ll become a Pentecostal or at least a Roman Catholic et al Charismatic.

[Quix]

PRAISE GOD THAT YOU DO.

AND MORE, THAT GOD KNOWS MY HEART! YEA GOD!

THANKS DEAR SISTER more than you can know.

[Cronos]

For us, human beings, everything we experience is necessarily in time — for we have, by God's decision, been manifested into a divinely created reality that has spatial and temporal — "this world" — dimensions, manifesting in the famous 4D block of Newtonian observation

well put -- I think it's also nearly impossible for us to comprehend such a world without time, at least it is for me!