Posted on 03/12/2010 7:02:37 AM PST by Colofornian
Who said I was arguing? I merely point out that people should look elsewhere than this Mormon bashing ground if they really want to know what Mormons believe without twisted interpretations and attacks.
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Elsewhere? Where? Certainly not the LDS, who lie and whitewash to their own members AND the public (esp. potential converts). Fair/Farms, whose spin surpasses the Obama administration? Bob Millet who encourages and participates in ‘lying for the Lord’ in his presentations?
And what “twisted interpretations and attacks”? You have made this charge several times and failed to back it up even once. Show me where I have twisted something?
Although I do have some good resources (well researched and vetted) for those interested in learning the TRUTH about Mormonism:
Then I actually bothered to try to find out the truth.
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I was LDS for several years, then *I* actually bothered to try to find out the truth, and left the LDS in the dust.
Smith, Young and McConkie PARAGONS???, ROFL.
The first two were swindlers, polygamists, thieves and dictators, and the last one was a bigot and either a complete fool or a liar.
Not exactly ‘role models’.
Bruce McConkie did not like the exposure of the mormon dictrines through printing or the Internet..
“Perhaps no important discovery in world history ever faced such intense and bitter opposition as arose over the use and spread of printing. Civil and ecclesiastical tyrants feared the loss of their ill-held and evilly-excercised powers should knowledge of the truth be made available to people generally.”
(Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine - Signs of the Times: “Discovery and Use of Printing”)
the “holy practice” of earthly polygamy would be re-instituted when the Mormon jesus returns (Bruce McConkie, “Mormon Doctrine”)
.”Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).
“It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,”
- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
BRUCE R. MCCONKIE
Mormon Doctrine, p. 114 (1958)
In a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole Negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry. (Gen. 4; Moses 5.) The whole house of Israel was chosen as a peculiar people, one set apart from all other nations (Ex. 19:5-6; Deut. 7:6; 14:2); and they were forbidden to marry outside their own caste. (Ex. 34:10-17; Deut. 7:1-5.) In effect the Lamanites belonged to one caste and the Nephites to another, and a mark was put upon the Lamanites to keep the Nephites from intermixing with and marrying them. (Alma 3:6-11.) All this is not to say that any race, creed, or caste should be denied any inalienable rights. But it is to say that Deity in his infinite wisdom, to carry out his inscrutable purposes, has a caste system of his own, a system of segregation of races and peoples. The justice of such a system is evident when life is considered in its true eternal perspective. It is only by a knowledge of pre-existence that it can be known why some persons are born in one race or caste and some in another. “However, in a broad general sense, caste systems have their origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the lord.
pp. 102.
Tough he was rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan.
pg. 343
Through Ham (a name meaning black) the blood of the Canaanites was preserved through the flood, he having married Egyptus, a descendent of Cain.
Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned....
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“I shall expound the doctrine of the Church relative to what our relationship should be to all members of the Godhead and do so in plainness and simplicity so that none need misunderstand or be led astray by other voices.”
He then stated that members of the Mormon Church “should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ.” He maintained that Mormons had “... never heard one of the First Presidency or the Twelve...advocate this excessive zeal that calls for gaining a so-called special and personal relationship with Christ.”
(Bruce McConkie’s infamous 1982 “Our Relationship With the Lord” BYU devotional talk.)
Sorry, how could I forget? They claim one set of standards for ‘gentiles’ which their own members are often exempt from.
Ah, yes some of McConkie’s most popular quotes. He was really big when I was LDS.
I stand by my post - women are inherently more spiritual than men. Just look around your church - I’m certain more women are faithful attendees. Women are much more charitable, they commit less crimes, and are much more humble and long suffering. They are more altruistic and more loving, especially to children not their own.
Between the two sexes, I’ve no doubt we men are pricks and undeserving of our partners.
Unlike Traditional Christianity, we’ve never interpreted the priesthood restriction to men as due to women being inferior or unworthy. We never viewed women as property, first owned by their father then by their husbands (which continues to this day in Islam, Sikhism, and Hinduism).
Lastly, try not to fall in the trap of equating polygamy with some great evil. Marrying more than one wife is not the same as adultery. They are married. Just because modern western culture thinks polygamy is abhorrent doesn’t mean the Bible’s positive description and words of the practice are suddenly imaginary. Why is adultery, homosexuality, and serial polygamy (marriage, divorce, remarriage) ok in our society but how dare they get married to more than one partner at once!
God himself told David, “I gave you your wives” - if God gives a man numerous wives, does that make God an evil God?
The point is God is the boss and what he says goes. We simply have no right to dictate morality to him.
What I find most ridiculous of all is we Mormons are condemned for practicing polygamy in the 19th century but the Baptist, Methodist, Anglican, Pentecostal, and African Independent churches in Africa and Papua New Guinea have polygamous families in their congregations today, in the 21st century, and are never condemned.
Hmmm, perhaps because of the racial double standard - they get a free pass just because they’re black?
What do you think of the article in this thread ???
I like it. Mormons do not believe in a “til death do us part” relationship. We believe the sealing bond of marriage continues in heaven. I truly and utterly adore and cherish my wife and have been fortunate that it is reciprocated. I do not want our marriage bond to be dissolved after we die. I do not want to see her in heaven but not be allowed to be with her just because our marriage bond was severed by death.
I felt the same with my first wife. When she died, the emptiness was overwhelming and I didn’t think I could go on. My soul was empty and torn at her passing. Being married to great women makes me know that my life as a man is incomplete without being bonded to a woman who is better than me.
I believe I will be bonded in heaven with Tennessee Nana and all other believers in Christ. Husbands and wives, children, friends, neighbors, ancestors and progeny will all be together with Christ and in Christ.
Mormons have nothing over me in their belief.
We will be one with Christ in His Kingdom- all believers in unity and we won’t be divided into special little family groups of people who performed a ceremony in a ‘special’ building where movies are played.
Tell me Edward - will your wives be with you? Or will they spend eternity with their parents - or will your children be with you? or with their spouses. How exactly does that eternal marriage work?
I stand by my post - women are inherently more spiritual than men.
I have no problem with your statement - except that the woman - with all of this built in righteousness - must depend upon the man call her through the veil. Do you have some LDS doctinal source that backs your post?
We never viewed women as property, first owned by their father then by their husbands (which continues to this day in Islam, Sikhism, and Hinduism).
Wow, just wow - you use the word NEVER.
"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Twenty Seventh Wife, Irving Wallace, p. 101.
Other ways they were mistreated is found in In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton (a practicing mormon iirc)
How exactly will you be bonded? When and where did the earthly sealing that is recognized in heaven occur? You cannot give what you do not have.
Only Protestants of the five branches of Christianity (and a minority of Protestants at that) believe in the priesthood of all believers or Christ miraculously gave his sealing power to others via a book that wouldn’t even exist in its present form until 350 years after his Ascension.
The fact remains if the Protestant belief that “a church doesn’t save; only an acceptance of Christ saves”; then we Mormons have nothing to worry about since if acceptance of Christ as our Savior and center of being saves the Evangelical or Protestant; it will also save the Mormon. After all, membership in a church doesn’t save, right?
OTOH, if Mormonism is true; the righteous Christian will go to heaven while the rightous Mormon will be exalted.
I’m not afraid of going to hell - I accept Christ as my Lord and Savior. I’ve accepted him as God and the only way of salvation. I’ve taken upon myself his name. I’ve vowed to be his true follower and strive to live my life as such. One cannot claim to be his follower if one doesn’t even attempt to follow him.
My Great-Great Grandfather had three wives. His second wife wrote a book about her experience as a polygamous wife.
Her story is immortalized in the book by Juanita Brooks, ed., Not by Bread Alone: The Journal of Martha Spence Heywood, 1850-56 (1978).
Historians consider her diary of the years 1850 to 1856 one of the best personal accounts of that period in Utah. It documents, among other things, the new territory’s intellectual life, the settlement of Nephi, and polygamous family life. Unflinching in her honesty, Martha Heywood records ambivalent feelings about her marriage and the dissatisfaction of some Nephi settlers with her husband’s leadership. Her own self-examination was rigorous; and her diary remains a testament to her integrity.
My Great-great grandfather basically left her alone after he married my 15 year old great-great grandmother, his third wife, when he was 45. My g-g-grandmother, Mary Bell, had been raised by him as his foster child from the time she was orphaned at age 8, in Nauvoo, IL.
It is disgusting - not a story of respect at all.... and Joseph Leland Heywood was seen as an early leader in the LDS Church.
You do not know my Lord and Savior. The Christ of Mormonism is not the same Christ.
The universal priesthood or the priesthood of all believers, as it would come to be known in the present day, is a Christian doctrine believed to be derived from several passages of the New Testament.
The Bible passage considered to be the basis of this belief is the First Epistle of Peter, 2:9:
But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
Other relevant Scripture passages include Exodus 19:5-6, First Peter 2:4-8, Revelation 1:4-6, 5:6-10, and many passages in the Epistle to the Hebrews.
Which is it Watson? Do you have faith in the Savior, or do you have faith in the ordinances and covenants you perform in the big white building. Be careful with your answer - eternity hinges upon it.
I do not want to see her in heaven but not be allowed to be with her just because our marriage bond was severed by death.
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What do you mean by that ???
Sexually or to be with her as a friend etc ???
Sounds the same as many stories that have come out regarding mormon polygamy. how the claim that they treated their women ‘better’ is beyond me.
Mormons worship the same Jesus Christ of the New Testament and the particularly the synoptic Gospels just as you do. To claim otherwise is ignorant. Christ is the Savior of all mankind. That's all you need to believe in order to be a follower and disciple of Christ. True Christians are generous and large in spirit, not denying others of their relationship with God and Christ just because there are differences in how you relate to them. It is utterly crappy and childish to claim Christ all to yourself and others who think like you and to deny him to anyone else. That is NEVER anything Christ taught nor is it Christian. This is all I will have to say on the matter because I hate wasting time on such ugliness of soul which is antithetical to the love of Christ.
felt the same with my first wife. When she died, the emptiness was overwhelming and I didn’t think I could go on. My soul was empty and torn at her passing.
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Do you think you will be with both women as your wives ???
Both sexually ??? or as friends ???
These are sacred topics and we wish people would be more respectful of our faith. I know it’s an open forum but I wonder if you would be willing to poke fun at Jews or Catholics.
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