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To: HarleyD; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; RnMomof7; the_conscience

” According to scripture, faith is a gift. / Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.”

Do Calvinists ever read scripture, or do they just read verses in a list?

Here is what it says:

5For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or “’Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Faith exists when one believes God and accepts the Gospel. [Note - faith means “confidence or trust in a person or thing”, so one person must believe something or someone to have faith.] Notice this: “And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

So evangelism is a wonderful thing, but IN CONTEXT ‘faith comes from hearing’ is tied to “how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard” - so one who hears and responds has faith. Not as a gift from God, given after regeneration by election.

“In almost every case in scripture where our Lord talks about the faith that man has, it is in regards to “Oh men of little faith...” This isn’t a rebuke-it is an observation.”

Really? They sure sound like rebukes to me.

Mat 21:32 “For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.”

As a rule of thumb, when a prostitute is being held up as a positive example to a religious leader, the religious leader is being rebuked.

Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.

What does that SAY? “he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart”.

“Once God opens our eyes and ears, and gives us His wisdom from above, there is no turning back.”

Yet apart from faith, there is no regeneration. “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

He gives life to those who receive him. Life follows receiving him. It doesn’t precede it.

“You refuse to come to me that you may have life.”

Come to him and receive life. Not, receive life and you will come.

“I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Not, unless I give you life, you will not believe, but “...unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

“While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them.”

Believe, that you may become.

“And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe.”

Not, you may receive belief, but you may believe - it is something we do, not something we receive.

“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

That you may believe...not that you may receive belief, but that you may believe - something we do.

And by believing, we may have life. Believing comes before life, and is the means by which we receive life.

If you go to the following link, you will find the 264 times in 220 verses that the Greek word pisteuo is used (KJV Greek concordance because the web site is working on their NASB greek concordance).

Not all are applicable, but I haven’t tried to filter it in any way, so anyone can judge for themselves - is belief something we do, or a gift given by God independent of us?

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4100&t=ESV


600 posted on 03/06/2010 7:26:56 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; RnMomof7; the_conscience
Do Calvinists ever read scripture, or do they just read verses in a list?

I'll compare Calvin's Systematic Theology to Arminian's any day. Oops....Arminian doesn't have one. Well then perhaps some other Arminian's detailed systematic theology. Oops, there are no detailed Arminian systematic theology. There are hodge-podge bits but nothing as exhaustive as Calvin's. In fact, one complaint Calvinists often get on many Arminian websites is that we "have all the answers".

Well, our deep dark secret in our responses is that God is ultimately directly or indirectly responsible for everything. There, the cat is out of the bag. I've spilled the beans. There goes our Calvinist smugness. I can feel the Calvinists stones being hurled at me.

I've read your postings on faith. There are very few Christians either Calvinist OR Arminian who feel comfortable with saying that faith is not a gift from God. I know of no commentator who would agree with your position. That doesn't make your position wrong but it certainly should give you pause that you are outside of orthodox Christianity.

You may wish to examine this in a spiritual context. If you feel comfortable with going before the throne of God thanking Him that you've exercised your faith to choosed His Son, then have at it. I would seriously compare this to going before the throne thanking Him for helping us to see His gift through the faith He has given us.

657 posted on 03/06/2010 4:04:36 PM PST by HarleyD (Hating the "syner" but loving the "-gist".)
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