As I’ve posted to Dr E many times, in the Greek, Ephesians 2 says salvation is God’s gift - NOT faith.
We’ve been over this before.
“By saying “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours, or “conditioned on faith on our part”, a man saves himself; it turns faith into works because it says it is our action that saves us. Whether the ‘that’ in “that not of yourselves” refers to faith or to grace, it does not matter; ‘you are saved’, says Paul, ‘by grace, and that not of yourselves’. The neuter gender “and that” does not necessarily exclude “faith”, “the difference of gender is not fatal to such a view, but the context demands a wider reference”, (J.A. Robinson). F.F Bruce writes, “It is probably best to understand “and this” as referring to salvation as a whole, not excluding the faith by which it is received”.”
Guess I’m still waiting for scriptural evidence that faith is the result of salvation, rather than the means by which we are saved by God’s grace.
How can “ded” men have life enough to exercise faith?
“If they were able to choose to believe or reject why then does Paul say in Eph. 2:1, “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”; 4-5, “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;”?
““By saying “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours, or “conditioned on faith on our part”, a man saves himself; it turns faith into works because it says it is our action that saves us”
Incorrect. We do not save ourselves, but God saves us - on the condition HE set, which is faith (believing). Thus we find we are saved BY grace THRU faith. Thus Jesus says, “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”
JESUS imposes the condition, not me. And Jesus COULD have said, “So that any who are elect are saved”...but he didn’t.
Jesus said, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
He could have said, “Those who are elect will be given belief”, but he didn’t. Instead, he commanded men to repent and believe. That is God’s condition, set by him in the plan he revealed to the Apostles. When the Philippian jailer asked, “What must I do to be saved?”, he was told “Believe!”
“How can “ded” men have life enough to exercise faith?”
Well, in Luke 15, the ‘dead’ son has enough life to repent of his evil. And we are also called sick, or slaves to sin - and slaves can accept an offer of freedom.
And in Acts 10 we read, “1At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God come in and say to him, “Cornelius.” 4And he stared at him in terror and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God. 5And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter.”
This was well before the Holy Spirit fell on him - yet what did God say? “At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, a devout man who feared God with all his household...”
Dead is one of the analogies used to describe our state before conversion. It is clearly not to be taken in total literalness, apart from all the other scriptures.
the_conscience: “No one has claimed that faith is a result of salvation. It is the means by which we are saved it just doesn’t happen until we are called by the Holy Spirit.”
Actually, Dr E wrote, ““Hebrews 11 provides excellent Scripture supporting the fact that faith is a free gift of God’s grace (Eph. 2) and thus it is the evidence of our salvation by God.”
If faith is the evidence of our salvation, and a gift we receive from God because of his election of us to live and irresistibly receive faith, then yes, we are saved by grace thru election, and faith is the result of our salvation, not the means by which God decides who will receive his pardon.
“F.F Bruce writes, “It is probably best to understand “and this” as referring to salvation as a whole, not excluding the faith by which it is received”.””
I like F.F. Bruce, but this is a case of reading one’s theology into the passage, not from the passage. The Greek is clear. Furthermore, there is not a single passage elsewhere that would justify saying faith is a gift given us, when it is presented again and again as something we do.
Jesus accuses the religious leaders, saying “you refuse to come to me that you may have life.” THEY refuse. He doesn’t say, “I won’t let you”, or “My Father refuses to let you”, but “YOU REFUSE TO COME”. And he blames them for their failure!
None of this negates the fact that it is all God’s grace. If God didn’t reach down, and make a provision for rebellious men while we were yet rebels, none of us would have any hope. But scripture clearly teaches that not all respond to God’s revelation the same way, and those who refuse will die for their refusing - which is their choice.
Why do you assume that “receiving” is active rather than passive?
We receive faith. As many as received Him to them gave He power to become Children of God.
Resisting, on the other hand, is active. “You do always resist the Holy Spirit...”
Receive vs resist. The latter condemns. “He who believes and is baptized shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Those who are lost own it by active resistance. Those who are saved have not actively done anything. They have passively received.
Those who resist demonstrate that “they are of their father, the devil.”
Those who receive demonstrate that they are “My sheep (who) hear My voice, and they know me and follow Me.”
All salvation is, then, of “grace through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no man can boast.”
I might point out that “a gift” is RECEIVED.