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To: blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; ShadowAce
God’s nature is righteous, just and not arbitrary or capricious so “the pleasure of his Good Will” would necessarily have to correspond to his nature.

Then why would he "HATE ESAU" without reference to his foreknowledge of Esau's life as a whole? It was stated earlier on this thread that God must have hated Esau even as he was a child and therefore his wrath would have had to be directed at Esau merely by the fact of his birth rather than any consideration of how Esau would ultimately turn out.

Hence if God hated Esau as an infant merely by the circumstance of his birth and without regard to what foreknowledge he had of his life and his ultimate destiny, then God would have no compunction about sending all the children of Sodom or all of the Amelekite children to the same hell to which he sent their parents.

How can you claim the truth of Calvinism and yet deny this premise?

275 posted on 03/03/2010 9:33:47 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; raynearhood; xzins; ShadowAce

“God must have hated Esau even as he was a child and therefore his wrath would have had to be directed at Esau merely by the fact of his birth rather than any consideration of how Esau would ultimately turn out.”

I trust you have a wide screen today, otherwise I will eliminate the paragraphs and make this just one to fit one screen.

God’s foreknowledge is according to His predetermination and providence and is in keeping with the voluntary choices (choosing what we want or desire most). Esau’s choices actual or possible) are exercised voluntarily but the circumstances that bring about these choices are through divine determinism (see Acts 2:23 & 4:27-28). If Esau had died as an infant, God in His omniscience knew what choices Esau would have made in the circumstances determined by God.

We are all under sin from conception; all under condemnation and a sentence of death. We have nothing to merit grace nor can we compare ourselves to anyone else and say we deserve what they get, except condemnation.

Rom. 9:13-23,

“As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,”

Chuck Smith has a great sermon on this passage, I don’t agree with everything he says, but for the most part he is right on.


280 posted on 03/03/2010 10:40:20 AM PST by blue-duncan
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