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To: Diamond

I know there are many out there that can’t swallow the truth about calvin and who have reams of support for his Lie...But I am telling YOU in the Name of Jesus that Calvin is wrong.

Calvin denies our free will....and many use him to support “once saved always saved”...another lie straight from the pit.

if you live long enough you will see this scripture come to life as I have.

“Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - ‘great falling away’] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition...” 2 Thess 2:1,3


and then again here-—

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils...” 1 Timothy 4:1


184 posted on 03/02/2010 12:41:18 PM PST by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
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To: Halgr
I know there are many out there that can’t swallow the truth about calvin and who have reams of support for his Lie...But I am telling YOU in the Name of Jesus that Calvin is wrong.

And my only point to you was that without Calvin you would not have the political liberty that you enjoy and helped defend. You do not even acknowledge this fact and instead quote me Scriptures about apostasy.

Calvin denies our free will....and many use him to support “once saved always saved”...another lie straight from the pit.

I would be surprised to find that you had ever even read anything he wrote. I don't know what you mean when you use the expression, "our free will", since you don't define it, but Calvin did define what he meant by it.

"in speaking of the freedom of the will, Calvin distinguishes between three types of freedom, namely, freedom from necessity by compulsion, freedom from sin, and freedom from misery. On the application of this distinction to man he writes, "The first of these so inheres in man by nature that it cannot possibly be taken away, but the two others have been lost through sin." (2.2.5) The question of whether man is free from misery is a moot point, given the obvious empirical data pertaining to human suffering despite one's will to avoid pain. The question of whether humanity is free from sin finds answer in two sources, Scripture and human nature. Calvin is very careful to maintain the scriptural witness regarding the sinfulness of humanity, as well as regards the Fall as a determinative event in man's moral history. In this regard, Calvin necessarily distinguishes between necessity per se and compulsion . "The chief point of this distinction, then, must be that man, as he was corrupted by the Fall, sinned willingly, not unwillingly or by compulsion; by the most eager inclination of his heart, not by forced compulsion from without. Yet so depraved is his nature that he can be moved or impelled only to evil. But if this is true, then it is clearly expressed that man is surely subject to the necessity of sinning." (2.3.5) Quoting Augustine, Calvin affirms, "Through freedom man came to be in sin, but the corruption which followed as punishment turned freedom into necessity." (Ibid) Here then, Calvin posits that human nature necessarily sins, yet does so not by compulsion in accord with the individual's will. This view could be considered plausible and consistent if indeed the Fall precipitated the natural change in human nature which both Calvin and Augustine claim.
http://www.quodlibet.net/calfree.shtml

Which of these three types of freedom are you referring to in your use of the expression, "our free will"?

Cordially,

194 posted on 03/02/2010 6:04:58 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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