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To: stfassisi

***Calvin’s doctrine of total depravity was his own invention; it was never taught by the Church or any early Church father for 1,500 years prior to Calvin coming on the scene. Calvin based “total depravity” on verses such as Eph 2:1,5 and Col 2:13 where Paul refers to us as “dead in our trespasses.” But in these verses, Paul was teaching about our condition prior to baptism (cf. Col 2:12). Before baptism, we indeed were dead in our trespasses. After baptism, we are no longer dead, but alive in Christ. As St. Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21, baptism now saves us, and as St. Paul describes, this is done by the “washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,” which is baptism (Titus 3:5). Man is still encumbered by concupiscence, which is the proclivity to commit sin, and often succumbs to sin, but he is not totally depraved. This is because we have received the grace of filial adoption in Christ through baptism (cf. Titus 3:7).***

This is where you get into problems. The total depravity of man is PRIOR to regeneration. It means that man in his NATURAL state will not come to God, will not seek God, cannot PLEASE God. Calvin believe, just as Paul does, that we are alive in the Spirit and not dead in sin after regeneneration. You seem to think that Calvin thinks that man stays in total depravity at all times. He doesn’t say that. Try readin Calvin sometimes, instead of what some peopel think of Calvin. You might be suprised.

One question for you. Can any man seek God all by himself, without God’s interaction?


132 posted on 02/23/2010 7:42:52 PM PST by irishtenor (Beer. God's way of making sure the Irish don't take over the world.)
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To: irishtenor
Most of your post is gibberish and unhistorical in Christianity

One question for you. Can any man seek God all by himself, without God’s interaction?

He has placed the "law of love on our hearts" already,so we are not depraved. He has acted and now it's up to us to co-operate in love and TRUTH with Him

Snow is piling up here in NY, so I have to get up and plow out in the morning

I wish you a Blessed evening!

138 posted on 02/23/2010 8:00:16 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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