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To: annalex

“pick up extra grace from other sinners”

It is my understanding that the reason Roman Catholics pray to various saints is that those saints have, by their many good works, stored up extra grace that they can dispense to those in need of it who ask them.

“He went to the Limbo of the fathers,”

I don’t know where the doctrine of Limbo comes from, either, I don’t see it in the Bible.

As for Abraham not being in heaven, in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, we are told that Lazarus goes to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man goes to Hades. The contrast there is between heaven and hell. Lazarus is carried by angels to Abraham’s bosom, and it says Lazarus is comforted and the rich man is tormented. It says Lazarus is receiving good things.

The rich man can’t be purgatory, because Abraham in the parable says no one passes from one place to the other. So the rich man, from what is called his torment, can’t pass that great gulf and get to Abraham’s bosom.

All to say Abraham is in heaven at that point, not in “limbo” and Jesus had not yet raised from the dead at this point in time.

“2 Cor 3:18 says that we are to behold the Holy Images so that we may be transformed by them. Gal 3:1 indicates that the Galatians were looking at the crucifix, since Christ in person was not crucified in front of they very eyes in Galatia.”

2 Cor 3:18 certainly does not instruct us to behold Holy Images.

Christ was indeed not crucified in Galatia; Paul “preached Christ and Him crucified.” There is no record of him using icons, statues, pictures, or images of any kind in his preaching. That wouldn’t have lasted one minute in a synagogue anyway! That’s where they did most of their preaching, and you didn’t dare bring an image of any kind into a synagogue.


119 posted on 02/25/2010 10:44:53 PM PST by Persevero (Satan tries to separate what God puts together and join together what God separates.)
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To: Persevero
It is my understanding that the reason Roman Catholics pray to various saints is that those saints have, by their many good works, stored up extra grace that they can dispense to those in need of it who ask them.

Yes. This is why I quoted Rom. 5:19-20, which speaks of the just. If your objection is that the saints don't themselves "dispense" of the grace, you are right but neither the Church teaches that.

Abraham is in heaven at that point

The scripture does not say that, and the Church does not teach that. Abraham's bosom is not heaven. It is the "prison" Christ ministered to and opened (1 Peter 3:19).

2 Cor 3:18 certainly does not instruct us to behold Holy Images

But we all beholding the glory of the Lord with open face, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I think it does.

There is no record of him using icons, statues, pictures, or images of any kind in his preaching

I just quoted one such record. You are rigth that it did not last long, as since 1c we don't worship in synagogues.

121 posted on 02/25/2010 10:57:51 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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