We've posted dozens of Roman Catholic prayers to Mary. Praying to Mary for her intercession is...praying to Mary.
Even your popes pray to her and quite earnestly. More's the pity.
Posted on 02/15/2010 9:07:17 AM PST by GonzoII
The Scenario:
Ever have one of those days when you’re feeling full of energy and vigor? I mean, you’re feeling just obnoxiously happy? Well, this is one of those days.
Driving home from work, you switch on the radio to see what’s happening, and you tune in to a local Protestant radio station just in time to hear a preacher speaking against various Catholic doctrines concerning Mary. The show is called Pastor Bob’s Bible Hour. Pastor Bob proclaims: “Jesus knew Catholics would come along and begin to worship His mother and call her perpetual virgin and absurd things like that. But the Bible says: ‘Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brethren James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all of His sisters with us?’ (Matt. 13:55-56a). And isn’t it sad, my brothers and sisters?”
Pastor Bob goes on to say: “Jesus dealt with these Mary worshippers in His day. In Luke 11:27-28, the Bible says, ‘A woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts that You sucked!” But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”’”
On a normal day you would probably just listen, take a few mental notes and drive on. But not this time. You’re feeling a little bit too saucy. You take the first exit you see and head for a phone. This is just one more reason why you need to buy that cell phone you’ve been talking about getting.
Step One:
(Excerpt) Read more at envoymagazine.com ...
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent.”
And where does the Son deny that Mary is his Mother? Does he cast her aside, or is she beside him when all others have fled? Does he not honour her as he does his Father in heaven?
You are setting up a false dichotomy. There is no, “believe in Christ”, and reject his Mother, just as there is no believe in his Mother, and reject his Son. For it is only through Christ that Mary was blessed, veneration of her and her blessing confirms the supreme authority of Christ. For she is truly the handmaiden, devoted to her Son.
Does she ever say, “come to me?”, no she says, “come to Christ”. She affirms him and his glory. She says, “do exactly as he says.” Obey Christ.
Yes, let us listen to his words and honour his Mother as he himself has done.
Roman Catholics don't trust the Bible. Apparently they don't trust the dictionary either.
That latter kind is the intercession of saints. Quite biblical. St, Paul asks for it in every letter.
Nowhere in Scripture are we told to pray to anyone other than the Triune God alone.
Harley:
“Ummmm...this is not correct unless you feel that Mary was set apart from Original Sin.”
Which indeed she did.
Your citations are interesting. Starting with St. Irenaeus:
“ST. IRENAEUS Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race....Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith.”
Again, Irenaeus is saying exactly what I am saying here. Mary is the second eve.
TERTULLIAN (c. 200 AD)
No reference to Mary as sinful.
ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE (c. 250 AD)
Cyprian, again no reference to Mary as sinful.
ST. ATHANASIUS (c. 360 AD)
Athanasius, no reference to Mary as sinful.
Did you not read St. Irenaeus drawing the contrast between Mary and Eve, sinless and sinner? It’s all right there. Open your eyes and see.
“Mary would not need a Savior if she was not tainted by the original sin of Adam.”
Again, Mary was preserved from sin by Christ. Hence, she is both sinless and in debt to her saviour. There is no inconsistancy.
“Everything comes from God. It is grace that saves and grace that pardons. Enoch walked with God simply because God bestowed His grace to him.”
Why Enoch? Why not someone else. Isn’t it unfair that God favoured Enoch?
“Noah was righteous because God found favor with Noah. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb because that is what God wanted. Paul was made righteous because God decided to reveal Himself to Paul. Mary was blessed because God chose Mary to bless her. All of these people were sinners yet God looked favorably upon them with His grace and mercy.”
Yes, and isn’t it unfair that he did this for all these people and not everyone?
“No, you’ve made the claim that the early church fathers supported the fact that Mary was sinless.”
And they have. Irenaeus is saying word for word what I am saying here. You simply choose to ignore what he’s saying.
“The fact is they did not. They supported the doctrine of original sin in which ALL have sinned because we are ALL from the race of Adam.”
Yet Irenaeus says that the faith of Mary undoes Original sin. Clearly original sin does not apply to her.
“You would like people to believe that Mary was an exception, but that is not recorded in scripture nor in the early church fathers’ writings on original sin.”
You’ve quoted Irenaeus who couldn’t be more clearer that she is, in fact, immune from Original sin.
“Yes, there is an inconsistency. If God wants everyone to be saved, and He can just **POOF** and you’re sinless, then why would He need or want His precious Son to undergo the humiliation, scorn, and horrible death by the likes of us?”
Ahh, now we get to the meat of the issue. Do you not understand that Christ himself chose to sacrifice himself as the passover lamb without blemish?
You’ve claimed that you are all about Christ, and yet you do not understand this very important point. It was not God the Father who commanded Christ to death on the cross, it was Christ who submitted to the authorities of man willingly. Who submitted to scourging, to a brutal crucifixion, upon which he expired only a few hours upon the cross.
“Nowhere in Scripture are we told to pray to anyone other than the Triune God alone.”
The only ones offering prayer to Mary are the protestants who insist that this *must* be so.
Reagan was right. There’s no difference between Protestants and Liberals. They know so much that isn’t so.
We don’t pray to Mary, for the last time. Intercessory prayer is between believers. Protestants engage it in all the time, they just don’t call it or refer to it in the same terms.
The honest ones eventually understand that even though the terminology is different, there is no difference between asking Mary to pray for us in heaven, and asking your pastor to pray for the congregation.
“If you’re bowing down, kneeling, and praying to it expecting your prayer to be heard the answer is YES!”
Then your issue is with statues, not Mary. Do you not kneel before the cross?
We've posted dozens of Roman Catholic prayers to Mary. Praying to Mary for her intercession is...praying to Mary.
Even your popes pray to her and quite earnestly. More's the pity.
Holy Mary, help those in need, give strength to the weak, comfort the sorrowful, pray for God's people, assist the clergy, intercede for religious. Mary all who seek your help experience your unfailing protection. Amen. Morning Consecration to Mary My Queen, My Mother, I offer myself entirely to thee. And to show my devotion to thee, I offer thee this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession. Amen.Mary, Help of Those in Need
These are prayers that should be offered to the Triune God alone. It's outright paganism to pray these requests to anyone but God. Good grief, Roman Catholic even "consecrate the morning" to her!
Pathetic. "Flee from idolatry." (1 Corinthians 10:14)
ping to 186 and 187.
The oppositional nature of God in relation to man is speculative.
Saints pray to God with us. That is what we ask them to do. The patterns is in 1st Timothy 2:1, that you recently brought up.
Amen. For that Christ appeared, suffered, died and rose again. That's the pure Gospel.
Believers have direct access to the Father through the Son with the assistance of the Holy Spirit who is resident in the believer’s life; why insult the Godhead with mystical will worship?
Because it feels so good?
What, in your mind, is wrong with these prayers and devotions?
How many lifetimes do you have?
And what's "in my mind" is not what matters. What matters is what's in Scripture.
And Scripture tells us that to pray to anyone but the Triune God for strength, comfort, joy, trust, faith, protection, guidance, good health, happiness, patience, redemption and salvation is outright, clear and certain pagan idolatry.
Most of us Protestants did not know the depth of the deception the Roman Catholic church practices and teaches until we came to this forum and read what Roman Catholics say about Mary and her position in this world and the next.
Protestants believe that what RCs teach about Mary is no less than shameful. It offends our sense of what a Christian is. If Roman Catholics were not referred to under the umbrella of "Christian" no one would much care. But when the secular world, or even a seeker, looks for what Christianity means and is then met with this intense and repugnant idolatry which is somehow called "Christian," we Protestants can only shake our heads and say, "No, that's not what "Christian" means.
Here's another first-up on google. I can't even make it past the first line without disgust...
"O Immaculate Virgin, Mother of the true God and Mother of the Church!, who from this place reveal your clemency and your pity to all those who ask for your protection, hear the prayer that we address to you...
Not only does JPII admit he is praying to Mary, but he is astoundingly, preposterously, blasphemously ASKING FOR HER "CLEMENCY!"
Wake up, people! You don't have all the time in the world to get this right!
lol. John 2:3 shows Mary was a good hostess to their thirsty friends. Jesus was preoccupied with...gee, lemme think, lemme think, maybe with something more important than serving the next round.
Of all the excuses the church at Rome coughs up for their silly rituals and pagan beliefs, this one is at the top of the list.
"See that our friends have another glass of Mogen David, Son," says Mary, "while I go co-redeem the world."
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It seems to me by your posts that you agree with us that there is only one mediator between God the Father and us, through His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. While the Roman Catholic Church has acknowledge that Mary participates in dispensing grace, it has not been formally approved that Mary dispenses all grace.
Given the fact that you seem to believe there is only one mediator through our Lord Jesus, if the Church were to declare Mary to be co-equal in dispensing God’s grace, would you denounce the Church’s heretical views?
Excellent question.
Alex did say, though, he thinks Mary is a mediator per John 2:3
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2451801/posts?page=167#167
Perhaps some of the prayers are as you describe (which have their own problems) but we've posted hundreds of them, many tonight, which show Roman Catholics praying to Mary for specific requests in the hope that SHE will fulfill the request herself ("her clemency") - all of which should be addressed to God alone.
I saw that later about Mary asking our Lord Jesus for more wine. I should really read these in order. I suppose if I need wine I know who to go to. :O)
Our Lord Jesus reference to Himself as the Son of Man goes back to the verses in Daniel:
“The problem for people caught up in this is if that is the dominant culture they live in there is no one telling them how wrong it is.”
Exactly. We were taught that Mary was divine and ascended into heaven, and that she was the one who crushed the serpent’s head to save the world. Living in the culture, no one ever challenged that. But even back then I had a sense that worshipping Mary was wrong.
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