Posted on 01/24/2010 1:32:01 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o
The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.
If he had been jailed I would have been his STRONGEST supporter. He wasn’t and I have no respect for him.
I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.
And again:
You wrote:
“The fact that he lived through the entire Second World War living like a king is all I need to know.”
You need to know more. He gave up his house to shelter Jews - hundreds of them. Did you know that? Or would you file that under “want to Know” and therefore think it useless info?
“I am not sure this is worth debating as you won’t be changing my mind, nor will I change yours.”
The difference is we actually know what we’re talking about because we’ve all done research. Your attitude is that you only “need” to know a few things. Maybe the issue isn’t changing your mind. Maybe the issue is opening it.
Maybe you should change your nickname from MarkAccord to BrokenRecord or perhaps MediOcre.
A lot of facts in the NY Times column. Their reporting was more thorough in those days, even though privately they really didn’t like Catholics. But they didn’t let that bias or wreck their story, the way they would in later days.
The Germans were extremely unhappy about Pius XII’s election, because he had been outspoken on the dangers of Naziism. As Secretary of State at the Vatican, he had been chiefly responsible for writing the encyclical, Mit Brenende Sorge, that was released under the name of his predecessor, Pius XI. It was basically a warning against Hitler and what he stood for, and it was, unusually, published in German rather than the usual Latin (which is then translated into other languages). I would suggest that anyone who imagines that Pope Pius was “Hitler’s Pope” should look up that encyclical on the internet and read it.
That makes him a Nazi sympathizer?
Are you making a point that addresses the article?
Are you making a point at all?
Are you awake?
I certainly don’t think Pope Pius XII deserves to be made a Saint. But that is up to your church as I am not Catholic.
I have no evidence to believe he was a Nazi sympathizer , so please do not put words in my mouth.
But how does saving thousands of Jews make him mediocre?
EXACTLY why was he mediocre?
I’m done.
I think we all knew that already.
In other words, you can’t explain why this heroic man was mediocre?
Where he was, he saved between 700,000 and 860,000 Jewish lives.
That's not my number, that's the number computed by the Israeli diplomat, Pinchas Lapide.
What do you think he would have been able to do for the Jews in a prison cell?
What you are saying amounts to, "Pius XII didn't do enough to justify himself in my eyes". So what? He wasn't out to justify himself, but to do the will of God.
If Pope Pius XII had been jailed, he would have acted like Jesus in my eyes. Maybe that is too high a standard.
“If Pope Pius XII had been jailed, he would have acted like Jesus in my eyes.”
Fully expecting to be seized by the Nazis, Venerable Pope Pius XII made arrangements that his resignation would be effective upon his capture, and a conclave would then be ordered to be held in territory not occupied by the Nazis.
However, even though Hitler gave the order to kidnap and imprison Venerable Pope Pius XII, the orders were not carried out in Rome by the Nazi official in charge.
It appears that only by the grace of God was he not arrested and imprisoned.
You hold that against him? That God miraculously spared him this? Do you think that perhaps God did that so that Pope Pius could continue to do his work, saving Jews?
sitetest
Venerable Pope Pius XII. I like that a lot. I think I’ll add that to our daily prayers for intercession, along with Venerable Pope John Paul II and Venerable Father McGivney. (We’ve had Fr. McGivney for years, but he’s just recently become Venerable ;-).
Gosh, it’s hard to make changes, though. We’re still saying, “St. Francis Xavier, pray for all the poor in India,” even though our current seminarian and orphan child are in Ethiopia. I suppose we could change it to “Africa and Asia.”
Pope Pius XII should be named a saint.
The most important reason is that impugning him has been used as a way to impugn Christianity since World War II, and naming him a saint is a way to fight back against that destructive effort.
Lord love him. The Jews blessed him, blessed him in 1945. We need many, many more like him today.
Can we say that Pope Pius XII was a good man, but not a Saint? I would probably sign onto that.
Do you realize that he melted down hundreds of pounds of gold vessels and ornaments and GAVE the gold to the Jews of Rome to bribe the Nazis with so they wouldn't all be rounded up and sent to concentration camps?
Do you realize that he spent vast sums of money arranging false passports and baptismal certificates for Jews, hiding them from the Nazis, supporting them all during the war?
Seems to me that you've made up your mind and don't want to be confused with the facts.
That's your loss, but please refrain from publicly criticising a good man about whom you know nothing. It just makes you look rather foolish.
Wonder what, in your generous mood, you'd call Schindler, who only saved 1200 and was hailed by the lefties in Hollywood as a hero.
These reports (here and here) are encouraging, but do not at all guarantee that a miracle can be confirmed. The Church seeks the input of independent experts, including atheists and agnostics, and believe me, it's rare for a medical investigator to say "This is really inexplicable." Relatively few get through the vetting process.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.