Posted on 01/12/2010 7:26:55 PM PST by Colofornian
Ah yes. That one. I found it amusing and unfortuantely very accurate.
Another good source for LDS belief is:
While, the Book of ABRAHAM is, is, is....
Well it’s just...
- - - - —
I think the word you are looking for is “joke”.
There they go again...ALWAYS claiming to be “speshul”...
- - - - - - - -
And then they are shocked when non-mormons claim the LDS are arrogant! OY!
Threads like this do nothing but support my decision long ago to never participate in ANY organized religion of any kind.
- - - - - —
There is a HUGE difference between organized religion and having a relationship with Jesus Christ.
I agree with SVCW, I am not part of “organized religion”, instead I am part of the Universal Body of Christ.
All one has to do is accept his gift, however it has to be HIS, the gift from the one true Christ, not some fictional character who simply bears his name and is acknowledged as one of many gods by “followers’ who put his name on their buildings.
Perhaps one day you will understand, as an ever growing number of former Mormons are doing everyday, that God does not play tricks or write fiction.
- - - - - - - -
Well said, E. Christ is not one of many (or even 3) gods. He has always been God and will always be God.
And, Praise God, there are numerous LDS who are finding out that the hamster wheel of worthiness leads nowhere but to Hell and are instead accepting the FREE GIFT of Eternal Life (Heaven, not resurrection only) through faith in Jesus Christ alone to save them from their sins.
“After all we can do” is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
You have sold your soul for a bowl of porrage, instead of the eternal feast offered to you by God.
- - - - -
Amen, ‘zilla.
I once had an LDS member tell me that if the Bible or even if Jesus Christ Himself came down and told him (the member) that the Mormon Church was false, the member would still choose the LDS Church.
It is a lot to place one’s eternal soul on a work that has no evidence for, and much evidence against, it.
So, Saundra? How would you respond? If the Bible told you the LDS Church was false, which will you choose? The Jesus of the Bible or the LDS church?
If the LDS church is “true” then the Bible is false, if the Bible is true, then then LDS church is false. There is no middle ground.
More like LDS are Christians on LSD.
- - - - - -
“Never mind him, he did too much LDS in the sixties” - Captain James T. Kirk explaining Spock’s behavior.
I have learned for myself that mormonISM is untrue!
- - - — - -
Right On! And you can say why (unlike JS).
Welcome to freedom, SZ. :)
Well, correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t Mormons believe that Jesus sweating blood in the garden of Gesthemene is what atones for their sins? Not His actual death?
- - - - - - -
The atonement for sin was in the garden. The crucifixion and death of Jesus was necessary only becuase he needed to die in order to be resurrected so we could all be resurrected.
Which begs a couple of questions. First, if the atonement took place in the garden, where Jesus was ministered to by angels, then isn’t that “cheating” since he atoned for sins of man with comfort, as opposed to his death on the cross in which there was NO comfort.
Second, if the Atonement took place in the Garden, then WHY did Jesus have to die right after. I mean, if the sins of mankind were already paid for by the shedding of his blood in the Garden, then theoretically He could have lived the rest of his life and died of old age rather than being tortured and crucified.
Here are a few quotes for you:
“Because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all mankind, even as many as will, shall be redeemed. The Savior began shedding His blood for all mankind, not on the cross but in the Garden of Gethsemane. There He took upon Himself the weight of the sins of all who would ever live. Under that [page 6] heavy load, He bled at every pore,” (Russell M. Nelson, “His Mission and Ministry,” New Era, Dec. 1999, p. 4, 6,
“Our church believes that Christ’s crucifixion was an important part of the atonement, but we believe that a more important part was when he suffered for our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane,” (”Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, Sept. 1996, p. 18)
“It was then that his father taught young Paul a great lesson. He asked the ministers if they understood the principle of Christ’s atonement. They seemed a little puzzled. His father said, “In our Church, we believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel” (third article of faith). He explained that the atonement allows each of us to be forgiven of our sins if we repent. Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane. As the only perfect person who ever lived on earth, He was the only one who could do this for us. We could not do it for ourselves. Without His sacrifice, we could never be forgiven of our sins and would not be able to live with Heavenly Father and Jesus again,” (Laurel Rohlfing, “Sharing Time: The Atonement,” Friend, Mar. 1989, p. 39,
“There is perhaps one other occasion on which Michael, as a spirit, may have played a particularly significant role in the plan of our Father. Luke records that on the night of Atonement, following the Last Supper, Jesus bowed in awful alienation and grief in the Garden of Gethsemane beneath the load of the world’s sins. He uttered his soul-cry: ‘Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done,’” (Robert L. Millet, “The Man Adam,” Liahona, Feb. 1998, p. 19,
“The Savior atoned for our sins by suffering in Gethsemane and by giving his life on the cross. It is impossible for us to fully understand how he suffered for all of our sins. In the Garden of Gethsemane, the weight of our sins caused him to feel such agony and heartbreak that be bled from every pore (see D&C 19:18-19). Later, as he hung upon the cross, Jesus suffered painful death by one of the most cruel methods known to man.” (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, p. 66,
“We accept Christ’s atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments,” (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, p. 68,
Even worse, mormonism promotes feelings as a substitute for objective truth - leaving millions deceived into a Christless eternity.
And then there are evil teachers who go about attempting to deceive others into the same fate... as you are doing.
- - - - - - - -
Ouch...
Of course, Mormons provide a technical reason for this: They don’t own the copyright to Joseph’s ‘corrected’ version (wife Emma retained the copyright, which went to the RLds break-off sect which she joined).
- - - - - - -
Yet they DO pick and choose a large part of it for their footnotes in their Official Quads (set of all 4 LDS ‘scriptures’).
And, while the LDS say it wasn’t finished (it was according to Joseph Smith himself), when I was LDS at least, the full version was sold in Mormon owned bookstores (Deseret books and Seagull books).
Just one more embarrassing thing they choose to distance themselves from.
good question.
Nuke the unborn, gay whale!
- - - - —
LOL.
Mormons do not. They believe they are three gods with a mutual purpose:
“The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
-= - - - - -
Yep. The LDS say they are not polytheists, but kinda hard to deny that with quotes like that.
They are better Christians than the rest of us and they were apoplectic when I said “I thought Mormons considered themselves separate and CCLDS with all others being apostasies?”
They insisted my information was incorrect and went ballistic. I asked them the calm down and that I am asking questions from several Mormons and getting different information. Anyway, it was not my opinion but a question based on information I have at this point and no condemnation is intended.
they tee’d off and said the people I am getting this information from are mistaken and the did so with great energy. Guess some days they want to be Christian and others they want to be LDS.
I also asked for a primer on “Pearl of Great Price” and they got very excited and said “do you know the story?”. I said didn't know the story from the Mormon perspective but that it was a parable, from the Bible, that I was familiar with.
Agitation again, me asking them calm down and tell the story.
Well apparently it had something to with a little girl and her dad. Little girl wanted something or other and not having enough money went to her father.
Father said contribute what you may and he would cover the difference. Their point being that is how salvation works. You can't put in enough, ever, but god being a benevolent father will always cover the rest.
I asked if they knew that it the statement “Pearl of Great Price” actually comes from a parable in the Bible. They went nuts insisting that it some divine story(I don't know from a prophet, seer or something they found laser inscribed on a diamond. I forget their story of provenance)
Again, I asked them lighten up we are just having a conversation and I am not in judgement of them, LDS or the story but would the mind if I told them the parable I am familiar with.
I was met with silence of “if you must”. No mind you I am talking with a high priest or whatever he is called(I am unfamiliar with their nomenclature) and I would think they know this, since they claim the Bible is part of their belief.
So I go on and tell them story, immediately they say that's not true and I am mistaken.
I said don't blame me, some old guys wrote that story and in fact it is in the book of Mathew. We can find the exact scripture when we get home but that is where the Pearl of Great Price comes from. I gave a quick tutorial on what it meant, which was similar I suppose to their version but different.
I guess they just plagiarize what they want and claim it as original to LDS.
works of man
Why would anyone want to name their whale Nuke?
Advisement for how to respond to Mormons who claim Smith's recasting of the Bible (JST) "wasn't finished": Just ask them if the D&C is a "finished product." [Of course, if they believe in ongoing revelation, they have to say "no"...so what difference does it really make to the Mormon if one of their standard works isn't finished? I mean, technically even the Book of Mormon is not a "finished" product BOTH because of the periodic re-edits they do ("white and delightsome" changed to "pure and delightsome") AND because what would happen if the beginning 116-page portion that Martin Harris took home was re-discovered?]
That is just his pre-existant name.
When he is fully formed on earth; it is liable to be Willy.
Well apparently it had something to with a little girl and her dad. Little girl wanted something or other and not having enough money went to her father.
Father said contribute what you may and he would cover the difference. Their point being that is how salvation works. You can’t put in enough, ever, but god being a benevolent father will always cover the rest.
- - - - - - - -
That is the story of the bike. It is a fairly famous analogy taken from one of the leaders, Stephen J. Robinson. IIRC, it was first given in General Conference then an article in the Ensign, and now is in books etc.
It makes me sick to read it. It just makes Christ someone we use to get what we want (exaltation). The LDS really do not understand how they denigrate Christ and His sacrifice.
In reality, salvation is not like a girl whose dad helps her pay for a bicycle after she has saved all she can. Instead it is like this (yes I realize this is not possible under American law, that doesn’t change it’s intent):
A man has spent many years committing various heinous crimes. Eventually he is caught and goes to trial. He is convicted and sentenced to die by slow torture.
After the sentence is handed down, a gentleman who has never committed ANY crime stands up and tells the Judge that he wants to be tortured and put to death INSTEAD of the offender and asks that the offender go free.
The judge who wants to be merciful yet knows justice must be satisfied. He agrees to let the innocent man suffer in the place of the offender.
The offender is so grateful that he goes up to the substitute and falls at his feet thanking him, kissing him, hugging him.
Problem is, if we could contribute ANYTHING to our salvation, then we could contribute ALL. Grace would cease to be Grace, and instead become works.
Another interesting quote from the article (full “parable” at end):
“I do not believe Christ can do what he claims. I have no faith in his ability to exalt me.” - Notice that instead of us giving glory (exalting) Christ, it is about Christ exalting (making Gods of) US.
LDS PARABLE OF THE BICYCLE
As my wife and I talked that night about feelings of inadequacy, I groped for some way to help. I finally remembered something that had happened a couple of months earlier. In our home it is now called the parable of the bicycle.
I was sitting in a chair reading. My daughter, Sarah, who was seven years old at the time, came in and said, “Dad, can I have a bike? I’m the only kid on the block who doesn’t have one.”
Well, I didn’t have the money then for a bike, so I stalled her. I said, “Sure, Sarah.”
She said, “How? When?”
I said, “You save all your pennies, and soon you’ll have enough for a bike.” And she went away.
A couple ofs weeks later I was sitting in the same chair when I heard a “clink, clink” in Sarah’s bedroom. I asked, “Sarah, what are you doing?”
She came to me with a little jar, a slit cut in the lid, and a bunch of pennies in the bottom. She said, “You promised me that if I saved all my pennies, pretty soon I’d have enough for a bike. And, Daddy, I’ve saved every single one of them.”
My heart melted. My daughter was doing everything in her power to follow my instructions. I hadn’t actually lied to her. If she saved all of her pennies, she would eventually have enough for a bike, but by then she would want a car. I said, “Let’s go look at bikes.”
We went to every store in town. Finally we found it—the perfect bicycle. She was thrilled. Then she saw the price tag, and her face fell. She started to cry. “Oh, Dad, I’ll never have enough for a bicycle!”
So I said, “Sarah, how much do you have?”
She answered, “Sixty-one cents.”
“I’ll tell you what. You give me everything you’ve got and a hug and a kiss, and the bike is yours.” Then I drove home very slowly because she insisted on riding the bike home.
As I drove beside her, I thought of the atonement of Christ. We all desperately want the celestial kingdom. We want to be with our Father in Heaven. But no matter how hard we try, we come up short. At some point all of us must realize, “I can’t do this by myself. I need help.” Then it is that the Savior says, in effect, All right, you’re not perfect. But what can you do? Give me all you have, and I’ll do the rest.
He still requires our best effort. We must keep trying. But the good news is that having done all we can, it is enough. We may not be personally perfect yet, but because of our covenant with the Savior, we can rely on his perfection, and his perfection will get us through.
As Janet and I internalized how the Atonement works, we wept. “I’ve always believed that Jesus suffered and died for me,” Janet said. “But now I realize that he must save me from myself, from my sins and my weaknesses.”
I rejoice in the words of 2 Nephi 2:8: “There is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah.” [2 Ne. 2:8] There is no other way. Many of us are trying to save ourselves, holding the atonement of Jesus Christ at arm’s distance and saying, “When I’ve perfected myself, then I’ll be worthy of the Atonement.” But that’s not how it works. That’s like saying, “I won’t take the medicine until I’m well. I’ll be worthy of it then.”
One of my favorite hymns reads: “Dearly, dearly has he loved! And we must love him too, and trust in his redeeming blood, and try his works to do.” (“There Is a Green Hill Far Away,” Hymns, 1985, no. 194.)
Truly, we must try to do his works with all that is in us. But then, having done all, we can trust in his redeeming blood to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
If we will enter into that glorious covenant Jesus offers us and give him all that we have, holding nothing back, trusting in his ability to make up for what we lack, he will exalt us. With him pulling with and for us, we can move forward in confidence toward our celestial home.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.