Defending the Faith (Catholic Caucus)

self ^ | January 8, 2010 | vanity

[Judith Anne]

In the age of the internet, a lot of very good information is readily available for those who have sincere questions about the Catholic Church. The Catholic Encyclopedia, the Online Catechism, many good apologetic sites--all have excellent answers to nearly any question that anyone could devise.

There is really no need for FR Catholics to engage in endless religious argument, and I would like to urge us all to simply refrain. We could resign from the debating society and let those who sincerely want to learn seek it out for themselves from a local priest or look it up on the net. Others, who do not sincerely want to learn, could be ignored, and privately remembered in prayer.

Opinions from fellow Catholics?

[narses]

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[AnAmericanMother]

I like MadDawg's idea too. A "fast" from disputation is a good thing, but we can't leave the field to anti-Catholics.

There are some folks who simply will not listen to reason. Nothing we can say or do will convince them.

But false statements unanswered become truths.

This is particularly true when somebody makes a post (or worse yet, starts a thread) with "Pope Pius XII murdered the Jews" or "All priests are child molesters". Look what happened to the reputation of a saintly Pope because nobody stood up to Hochhuth in a timely fashion.

Besides . . . some of us just love to argue and dispute - as long as there's some actual discussion going on, not just talking to a stone wall.

[Desdemona]

That wasn’t Robert Shaw, was it?

Ha ha. No. A little more recent than that. :) I mean, would ANYONE dare to correct Robert Shaw?

[Desdemona]

I noticed that last year things got really nasty as Easter approached. I think a “silence” from the Holy Thursday Mass until Easter Monday morning is something each of us should consider seriously. If there cant be an Easter truce we need to back off unilaterally.,

I take it you mean Mass of the Lord's Supper? For some of us, that weekend begins with the Mass of the Holy Chrism earlier in the day.

I could go for that.

[Desdemona]

Sponsors/buddies. As part of the fasting/engaging or tag-team model, maybe those not participating could pray for those who are engaging.

This is a good idea.

[reaganaut]

A “fast” from disputation is a good thing, but we can’t leave the field to anti-Catholics.

- - - - - -
Agreed. :)

[AnAmericanMother]

LOL! Tell me about it.

Some folks in the ASO Chorus are soooooo weird . . . they have like shrines to Shaw - somebody said it's like they had a son killed in the War.

The down side is that nobody dares to change a thing he did -- so they've been singing the Brahms Requiem for 40 years on tour.

[wagglebee]

It is better to say the statement is false, wrong, misleading, etc. - the word "lie" attributes the intent to deceive.

Let's look at a hypothetical:

FReeper John Doe is a member of the Church of Funny Math and continually says that Catholics believe that 3+2=7. Every time he says this, several Catholic FReepers correct him and tell him that the actual answer is 5, but still he persists and even has a ping list of Funny Mathites who tell everyone that Catholics believe 3+2=7.

Why is it unacceptable for Catholics to say that the notion that Catholics believe 3+2=7 is a LIE even with the implication that John Doe and the other Funny Mathites have an intent to deceive?

[Mad Dawg]

WHAT is that a picture of? I mean I get that its a thurible but .... wha’?

[Mad Dawg]

Yeah, Mass of the Lords Supper, of the “Maundy”.

[sitetest]

Dear wagglebee,

And even when the documentation is shown that 3 + 2 does NOT equal 7, why is it still permitted to be said on the forum?

Would the forum allow threads of long excerpts from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion presented as authentic history?

There have been cases where a poster has posted in this vein:

“I assert X and in support of X, I cite The Book on All the Information on X, by John Smith, p. 232.”

When I looked the book up, and read from p. 232, it turned out that the poster had represented the OPPOSITE of what the book said. When I posted this, with the reference and the URL, the poster ignored it.

When I pointed this out in other threads, I was told that I was taking stuff from one thread to another and to stop.

But the poster had FALSIFIED what the book actually said. The poster alleged that the book said one thing when it said THE OPPOSITE.

First, that's relevant to the credibility of the poster. In the non-virtual world, one should be able to impeach the credibility of someone by bringing up past lies. And yes, the poster was lying. But that's "making it personal." Well, Religion Moderator, when someone is a liar, it's a personal thing, but it's also relevant. Folks should know when someone has a long and illustrious history of saying the opposite of what is documented to be true. That IS relevant to these conversations.

Second, the poster's assertion, which actually falsified the material from the book, should have been permanently banned on the forum, SINCE BY THE POSTER'S OWN SOURCE IT WAS PROVEN FALSE.

Yet, this poster makes the same false charge on a regular basis.

Finally, let's remember that if this poster were to do the same thing as a student in a school, the poster would be expelled for ACADEMIC DISHONESTY.

Why is this sort of blatant, proven lying tolerated here?

And if this blatant, proven lying is permitted, why do we ban other blatant, proven lies, like the Protocols?

sitetest

[Desdemona]

The down side is that nobody dares to change a thing he did

I've noticed that.

[wagglebee]

I have had similar experiences a number of times.

[AnAmericanMother]

Isn't that AWESOME?

That's the "Botafumeiro" or "Smoke Shooter" in the Cathedral at Santiago de Compostela.

It takes three guys to charge it and a team of about a dozen men to get it swinging. They pull on short ropes attached to the main cable, as the thurible reaches the end of its arc, and they can really get it going.

My daughter made the Camino (at least, the part in Spain) a couple of years ago, walking and staying in the hostels along the Camino. She arrived at the Cathedral on St. James's Feast Day -- and got to see the famous Botafumeiro in action.

You can see it here.

I gotta say, the Spaniards know how to do things RIGHT.

[Tax-chick]

some of the threads here can be gruesomely fascinating

Excellent observation!

I don't participate in threads if I'm emotional, and I don't respond to attacks. However, I do like to commend my more combative FRiends on their vigorous verbiage and outrageous puns.

[Mad Dawg]

A lot of Catholic Worship is like this:

A kid works hard to learn how to do a cannonball dive. Maybe he's 6 or 7 years old. When he thinks he's REALLY good at it, he goes to his Mom and says, "Hey Mom! watch me!" And Mom watches, and she loves it.

So a bunch of guys learn to do a stunt with a monster thurible and then they say to God, "Hey, Father, WATCH me!" And He watches, and loves it.

[MarkBsnr]

I certainly have seen no reason for you to be omitted. You have shown nothing but respect for the Faith that I’ve seen and I certainly would welcome you to a caucus thread.

[reaganaut]

Thank you, Mark. I appreciate that.

[AnAmericanMother]

"Hold my sangria and watch THIS!"

. . . and the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and the sloths, and the elderberries, and the breakfast cereals . . . .

[markomalley]

FReeper John Doe is a member of the Church of Funny Math and continually says…

NOW YOU'VE GONE AND DONE IT.

This will clearly need to be marked a "Catholic/Church of Funny Math Caucus" thread now.

THANKS A LOT...

;-)