RnMomof7 WROTE:
The belief that the Holy Spirit speaks through the RC Church magisterium is found no where in scripture
verdadjusticia RESPONDS:
I showed you where it is in scripture by a separate posting. Now I bounce it back to you; your belief in “bible only” is found no where in scripture!
1) Sola scripture is not taught in the Sacred Scriptures.
2) Sola scriptura is an example of the logical fallacy of begging the question, in as much as the canonical scriptures never identify what is and what is not Scripture.
3) Sola scriptura was not believed by anybody until the Reformation, and is thus a tradition of man, condemned by our Divine Lord Jesus Christ.
4) The Sacred Scriptures teach that oral tradition is a source of revelation.
5) The Sacred Scriptures show the Catholic system of authority.
6) The writings of the earliest Christians show the Catholic system of authority.
For instance IMHO Acts 15.
Once again NO where in scripture is the church taught as infallible.. BTW Gates are defensive, not offensive.. that scripture is saying the church can storm the gates of hell and prevail ..when was the last time your church stormed the gates of hell with the gospel??
1) Sola scripture is not taught in the Sacred Scriptures.
Of course it is 2 Tim3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
Even your church fathers knew that scripture was to be the FINAL authority in matters of faith (what sola scriptura means)
"Ignorance of prophetic diction and unskillfulness in interpreting Scripture has led them into a perversion of the point and meaning of the passage." (Hilary of Poitiers, On the Trinity, Book 1, 35)
"In order to solve as easily as possible this most difficult problem, we must first master the knowledge which the Divine Scriptures give of Father and of Son, that so we may speak with more precision, as dealing with familiar and accustomed matters." (Hilary of Poitiers, On the Trinity, Book 3, 2)
"Let this, then, Christ-loving man, be our offering to you, just for a rudimentary sketch and outline, in a short compass, of the faith of Christ and of His Divine appearing to usward. But you, taking occasion by this, if you light upon the text of the Scriptures, by genuinely applying your mind to them, will learn from them more completely and clearly the exact detail of what we have said. For they were spoken and written by God, through men who spoke of God. But we impart of what we have learned from inspired teachers who have been conversant with them, who have also become martyrs for the deity of Christ, to your zeal for learning, in turn. (Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word, 56)
"Whereas, therefore, in every question, which relates to life and conduct, not only teaching, but exhortation also is necessary; in order that by teaching we may know what is to be done, and by exhortation may be incited not to think it irksome to do what we already know is to be done; what more can I teach you, than what we read in the Apostle? For holy Scripture setteth a rule to our teaching, that we dare not "be wise more than it behoveth to be wise;" but be wise, as himself saith, "unto soberness, according as unto each God hath allotted the measure of faith." (Augustine, On the Good of Widowhood, 2)
Receive, my children, the Rule of Faith, which is called the Symbol (or Creed). And when ye have received it, write it in your heart, and be daily saying it to yourselves; ... For this is the Creed which ye are to rehearse and to repeat in answer. These words which ye have heard are in the Divine Scriptures scattered up and down: but thence gathered and reduced into one, that the memory of slow persons might not be distressed; that every person may be able to say, able to hold, what he believes. For have ye now merely heard that God is Almighty? But ye begin to have him for your father, when ye have been born by the church as your Mother. (Augustine, On the Nicene Creed: a Sermon to the Catechumens,
"But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves." (Clement of Alexandria, book 7, ch 16, Scripture the Criterion by Which Truth and Heresy are Distinguished)
I could go on but you get the point..
2) Sola scriptura is an example of the logical fallacy of begging the question, in as much as the canonical scriptures never identify what is and what is not Scripture.
Jesus clearly defined what was OT scripture..The Holy Spirit defined NT scripture
BTW this is is a lousy argument from a church that CLAIMS ITS AUTHORITY FROM THE SCRIPTURES..
3) Sola scriptura was not believed by anybody until the Reformation, and is thus a tradition of man, condemned by our Divine Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you want more quotes from "your church fathers? They all looked to the scriptures .... until it was more profitable to maker it up as you go along
4) The Sacred Scriptures teach that oral tradition is a source of revelation.
Where? What tradition do you suppose they were referencing? 95% of your church "tradition" came long after the scriptures were written...why call them "sacred when they are secondary to private revelation?
5) The Sacred Scriptures show the Catholic system of authority.
Could you point me to the scripture that has the role of priest in the new church (hint there is none) How about infallible pope? where is that ??(hint no where)
6) The writings of the earliest Christians show the Catholic system of authority." or the "sacred scriptures"...
The truth is 100% of what you call the RC church traditions do not begin until 250 years after Christ with a huge number not until the 1200 and later.