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To: boatbums; flowerplough
Mary, blessed and full of grace, gave birth to the human form of God

You apparently missed another thread posted earlier today.

in 431, the Council of Ephesus met, under Cyril’s leadership, and solemnly proclaimed that Mary is indeed rightly to be honored as the Theotokos, the Mother of God. It proclaimed that from the moment of his conception, God truly became man. Of course Mary is a creature and could never be the origin of the eternal Trinity, God without beginning or end. But the second person of the blessed Trinity chose to truly become man. He did not just come and borrow a human body and drive it around for awhile, ascend back to heaven, and discard it like an old car. No, at the moment of his conception in the womb of Mary, an amazing thing happened. God the Son united himself with a human nature forever. Humanity and divinity were so closely bound together in Jesus, son of Mary, that they could never be separated again. Everything that would be done by the son of Mary would be the act both of God and of man. So indeed it would be right to say that a man raised Lazarus from the dead and commanded the wind and waves, that God was born that first Christmas day and that, on Good Friday, God died.
Calling Mary “Mother of God” Tells Us Who Jesus Is

She is therefore his human mother.

By this statement, you, like freeper flowerplough, have fallen prey to one of the oldest christian heresies - Nestorianism.

Nestorianism is the error that Jesus is two distinct persons.  The heresy is named after Nestorius, who was born in Syria and died in 451 AD, who advocated this doctrine.  Nestorius was a monk who became the Patriarch of Constantinople and he repudiated the Marian title "Mother of God."  He held that Mary was the mother of Christ only in respect to His humanity.  The council of Ephesus was convened in 431 to address the issue and pronounced that Jesus was one person in two distinct and inseparable natures:  divine and human.

Nestorius was deposed as Patriarch and sent to Antioch, then Arabia, and then Egypt.  Nestorianism survived until around 1300.

The problem with Nestorianism is that it threatens the atonement.  If Jesus is two persons, then which one died on the cross?  If it was the "human person" then the atonement is not of divine quality and thereby insufficient to cleanse us of our sins.

6 posted on 01/02/2010 3:28:30 PM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

So I’m a Nestorian heretic, then, in your eyes? Brand me twice, I guess...


8 posted on 01/02/2010 3:34:51 PM PST by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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To: NYer
The problem with Nestorianism is that it threatens the atonement. If Jesus is two persons, then which one died on the cross? If it was the "human person" then the atonement is not of divine quality and thereby insufficient to cleanse us of our sins.

How interesting that you accuse Nestorianism of threatening the act of atonement. When scripture says in Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

If Christ lived a sinless life wholly by the power of being God, what was the point of temptation? Jesus was able to die in our place because he was fully human and that fully human nature lived his life free of all sin. We learn in Philippians 2:5-8

In your relationships with one another, have the same attitude of mind Christ Jesus had:

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a human being, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!

Do you actually believe Almighty God was/is ever subject to death? Jesus Christ, when we say he was fully man and fully God, emptied himself and took upon himself the nature of man. God cannot die, he always was and always will be, in order for him to die in our place and to make propitiation for all sin, he became a man and lived a sinless life and gave this life for the sins of all mankind. Still the triune God never stopped existing.

We know from Scripture as well, that Jesus will forever exist in a glorified bodily form complete with the nail scars on his hands and feet. They will forever be a reminder of the sacrifice he made for us and the grace he lavished upon us so that we will dwell with him for all eternity.

16 posted on 01/02/2010 4:32:33 PM PST by boatbums (Pro-woman, pro-child, pro-life!)
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To: NYer
"The problem with Nestorianism is that it threatens the atonement. If Jesus is two persons, then which one died on the cross? If it was the "human person" then the atonement is not of divine quality and thereby insufficient to cleanse us of our sins. "

Yes that's it. This 'where is it in the Bible' nonsense comes from those who think the Bible is God and not just words and actions of God. John wrote that all is not contained in the Bible.

Jesus [God] believed in teaching through people, both good and bad. The 'Bible' records He only wrote once in sand but He sent people to spread His word.

To those who believe Jesus is God, no proof is necessary and for those who don't believe Jesus is God, no proof is possible.

51 posted on 01/03/2010 7:40:22 AM PST by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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