Posted on 12/14/2009 11:06:25 AM PST by the_conscience
Exactly right. I don't believe in Sola Ecclesia.
It has served the Church well in its current basic form for 2000 years.
Maybe your church.
It seems the sexual abuse in your church is dominated by same sex abuse with adult priests abusing post pubescent boys. I believe celibacy contributes to this problem, but it's not my church so it's really not my problem.
From what I've seen in Evangelical Churches the largest % of abuse charges is heterosexual between consenting adults. A different type of sin.
The only purpose would be to appease the protestant and unbelievers hostility to a celibate priesthood.
I really don't care. I think a married clergy brings a better perspective to the congregation. However, we view clergy as equals we don't elevate them to a different status.
Sin is a human problem.
As sinners and their sins exist in small institutions such as a local protestant congregation,
they also exist in a large institution such as the universal Church.
The incidence of sexual sin among Catholic clergy is certainly no hiugher than among protestant clergy, and any number you throw around that seems large is large because the universal Church has 1 billion adherents - and not because a high percentage of clergy are guilty of this sort of sin.
FWIW I heard that the incidence among protestant clergy is twice that of Catholic clergy.
FWIW I heard that the incidence among protestant clergy is twice that of Catholic clergy.
Its funny how a celibate confessor who hears about the struggles of marriage from wives and husbands - and whose view is not jaded and skewed by his own role as a husband - can be a very good sounding board and typically knows far more about ALL aspects of marriage - save for the actual experience of sexual activity - than most people do.
Of course, your experience is limited since you have not enjoyed the sacraments and counsel administered by such priests.
but protestant clergy aren’t held to same biblical standard as catholic priests are they?
Thankfully I have someone else to go to with my problems.
As the bible says, the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.
All that we know about God comes through the Church, as God designed, and so unlike you, I place much greater weight on what the Church has to say than on my own personal interpretation of scripture.
My Church is the Church of the early fathers and of the Didache. The Church that dared to declare certain writings of its members to be the Word of God - a declaration that you follow to this day. And a Church that has dared to claim and enjoy the protection of the Holy Sirit for 2000 years (thorugh things much worse than we are experiencing today).
The protestant novelty of sola scriptura has given us gay protestant clergy and weddings, among other absurd innovations throughout history.
When you say sola ecclesia, it is true in that even the Word comes to man through the Church (as it HAD to be before books were commonly available possessions), so I am happy to adopt your interesting phrase - though I can see how it would seem odd to one whose church lacks the long, rich history and authority that mine enjoys.
To what do you refer?
Is there any standard at all for protestant clergy?
is there any standard for catholic clergy?
Great answer. Thanks.
You boasted of your experience with married protestant ministers to bolster your claim that they are better equipped to assist married people than celibate Catholic clergy.
But apparently you have no experience being counselled by celibate Catholic clergy, so you have admitted that you have no basis to make such a claim.
You said
“protestant clergy aren’t held to same biblical standard as catholic priests”,
and I am wondering to what standard you are referring?
Biblical standards of course
“The current battles over clerical celibacy are nothing new.”
What current battle about clerical celibacy? Is it Protestants vs.Protestants or Protestants vs. Catholics or Catholics vs. Catholics?
Are there any Protestants who have clerical celibacy? If not, where is the battle? Are there Protestants thinking about adopting the latin rite Catholic model? If not where is the battle? Are Catholics trying to force Protestant clergy to be celibate? Where is the battle?
If the battle is between Catholics, the article doesn’t address it too well.
In an argument between Catholics battling about celibacy, it is easy to tell which one is the liberal and which one isn’t. Almost invariably the Catholic arguing against celibacy will also believe in a number of other things most liberal Catholics believe, like having priestesses, “gay marriage”, birth control, abortion being fine, the lessening of the authority of the Pope and bishops, no true presence in the Host, marxism and gay clergy in “relationships”. But if a Catholic believes any one of these things, then FOR SURE they are also against celibacy. The Catholic liberals HATE celibacy. I think in any battle about celibacy that should be at least pointed out.
Freegards
Very true.
Can you clarify what you mean by
“same biblical standard”
in your post 187, repeated here:
“But protestant clergy aren’t held to same biblical standard as catholic priests are they?”
Once you explain your question, I will try to answer it.
Can you answer 163?
Well, your persception is certainly shaped by the fact that the press is far more interested in the homosexual activities of Catholic priests than of high school coaches. As someone who spent 40 years in the public schools, it was my experience that a lot of guys were more interested in the naked boys in locker rooms than in sports. Until recently, not much fuss was made about such men. They just went on to other school districts, and there are about 12,000 of these in the USA for them to disappear into. Of the few dozen cases I know about personally, almost of them were married men with family.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.