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To: BibChr

***Do you rejoice that Jesus Christ has provided full and complete atonement for his people, never to be helped or supplemented by anything man can contribute, in any way?***

Your statement is logically false. Man must say “yes” to Jesus’ atonement. He is not saved without it. Therefore, man must “do something” for his own salvation.

And if man can never contribute anything, then what does St. Paul mean in this verse?

“Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:” Colossians 1:24 KJV (some translations translate “behind” as “lacking”) How do you explain St. Paul saying that Christ’s afflictions were lacking and that he (St. Paul) could fill up this void?

And what does St. Peter mean here?

“But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.” KJV I Peter 4:13

Remember that your answer hinges on accepting Holy Scripture as the inspired Word of God, so don’t try to argue that it doesn’t mean what it clearly says.


139 posted on 12/14/2009 10:00:03 AM PST by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: nanetteclaret

Oh no, it absolutely means what it says. But it can’t say something that contradicts Jesus’ cry that He had accomplished all, fully (John 19:30), nor Paul’s categorical statement that the redeemed man is he who does not work, but only believes in Christ (Romans 4:5), nor his emphatic assertion that salvation is wholly of God and leaves no room for human boasting nor contribution of any sort (1 Corinthians 1:30).

So I say that the apostles (A) cannot be contradicting themselves, and thus (B) cannot be saying what would be contradictory; and so (C) mean exactly what they say: we are still in the time of suffering for Christ (cf. Acts 14:22, among many others). Since they cannot be redemptive sufferings — or the whole Bible is undone, Christ is un-seated as Savior, and God’s word is made empty — they are sufferings due to our connection with Christ (Acts 9:4), and for our own good (Hebrews 12).

By “us” and “our” I mean those who trust Christ as he is presented in the Gospel, described in comment #117.

Hope that helps you.


140 posted on 12/14/2009 10:54:36 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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