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To: markomalley

“What we see at the Mass is bringing down to earth of the reality of what is in heaven. Not a metaphor, not a parable, but the real thing...but in two separate and distinct temporal planes.”

Except Jesus isn’t being sacrificed in heaven. He is the Lamb that WAS slain, not the Lamb being slain.


77 posted on 11/24/2009 4:20:20 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
Except Jesus isn’t being sacrificed in heaven. He is the Lamb that WAS slain, not the Lamb being slain.

True statement. He is not sacrificed again and again.

But as I pointed out in my earlier post, we must always remember that time in a heavenly sense is not the same as time in an earthly sense. To quote St. Peter again,

But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Of course, you know Hebrews 9:9 -- talking about how the things of before were a figure for (or symbolic of) the work of Christ (the actual Greek is "a parable")

In light of that, I would point out a couple of other verses in Hebrews.

In Hebrews 7:23-24, we read, The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues for ever. It goes in talking about how the old testament priests were prevented by death from continuing in office, thus, there were many of them. They could not make intercession for men for all time, even in their imperfect way, for this reason. Christ, on the other hand, was able to make that intercession in the perfect fashion with the perfect sacrifice for all time.

In Chapter 8, we see the contrast between the furnishings of the Old Covenant and the New. Again, the point that the Old Covenant is being shown as a copy of the heavenly sanctuary of the New Covenant.

Then we enter into Chapter 9, which details the sacrifices offered in the old covenant and new. Of particular interest is Heb 9:11-12 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Where was this Holy Place? Heaven. Looking toward verse 24, we see For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Chapter 9 continues on to talk about how it is one sacrifice, one set of suffering, because the sacrifice was perfect and sufficient for all time. Chapter 10 culminates this particular discourse where it says that we have been sanctified by the offering of Christ once for all. And that this offering was accomplished once and for all, after which He sat at the fight hand of God.

All well and good. But, we see what St John saw in heaven: I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, Why would John, writing his apocalypse in 95 or 96 AD, depict having a vision of the Lamb standing. And He is still immolated. (Note: I did not say that he was immolated afresh). In Hebrews 10, He was identified as being seated. In Revelation 5, He is identified as standing. Likewise in Hebrews 10, He is identified as being done (signified by sitting), but in Hebrews 9:24, He is NOW offering intercession for s entered into the heaven, the sanctuary made without hands, itself, NOW to appear on our behalf.

If we recognize the significance of the above-quoted 2 Pet 3:8, we can see that heavenly time is not the same as our time. And then it starts to make a bit of sense...maybe some things should be considered somewhat in parallel rather than strictly serially.

And that is basically why I wrote:

If one could look into heaven and see what was going on, though, one would still see the mortally wounded Lamb, despite His wounds, being fully alive (See, for example, Rev 5:6).

Yes, Jesus isn't being sacrificed in heaven. He was sacrificed on Calvary. He was slain, he is not being slain.

But where did He, the High Priest of the new covenant, offer Himself, the Paschal Lamb? From what I see, He did this offering in Heaven.

Let me ask you one question (as a Baptist, you are likely more conversant than I am, as a Catholic, in the Scriptures): in the old covenant, was there ever an occasion where sacrifice was offered in anticipation of future sins? (If so, could you show me where in the OT that this was documented)

84 posted on 11/24/2009 6:59:39 PM PST by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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