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To: Mr Rogers
he IS making very clear that the woman should be focusing instead on who Jesus is, and obeying God.

He never says "focus on Me" in that passage. He says that indeed the saints are to be venerated for their faith in Him, and not his mother alone. He never says, like you rightly note, "do not venerate any saints", he simply points out why we should do so.

It is clear from that passage (and its counterpart in Luke 8) that veneration of a saint is focusing on Christ. That is Who makes them saints.

Mary’s position before God is the same as all believers - a member of the family based on belief and obedience, not being the vessel that bore Him

Where does it say so in the Bible? The idea of equality of all saints is nowhere taught. In fact, the opposite is taught: that there is a hierarchy in the Kingdom of Heaven, and the hierarchy is based on service (Matthew 5:19). So, what's Mary's service? Rather unique, wouldn't you say? The Gospel agrees with me (Luke 1:28,30,35,43-55, John 19:26-27, Acts 1:14, Apocalypse 12:1-17).

12 posted on 11/21/2009 2:39:17 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex

Where does it say so in the Bible?

3 times:

“46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” - Matt 12

31 Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. 32 And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You.” 33 But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” 34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” - Mark 3

19 Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. 20 And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.” 21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” - Luke 8

In THREE passages, he makes clear that what is important is NOT a physical relationship, but the SPIRITUAL one. Anyone who focuses on Mary because she is ‘Mother of God’ needs to realize that they too can be the ‘mother / brother / sister’ of Jesus.

I don’t know how Jesus could have made it any clearer - the extent Mary is blessed or honored is directly proportional to her obedience to God - which was not always faultless.

Mark 3: “Then he went home, and the crowd gathered again, so that they could not even eat. 21 And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.”...And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him.”

The context of these 3 passages is when Mary (his mother) and his brothers came to take him away because “He is out of his mind.”

Nor was her service all that spectacular. When told by the Angel she would give birth to a son via the Holy Spirit, she said...yes. She wasn’t in much of a position to say no, was she? How many folks look an Angel in the eye and say, “Nope!” The handful that have that experience and doubt soon regret their doubts.

While her service was unique, it wasn’t particularly great, either.

You write, “He says that indeed the saints are to be venerated for their faith in Him, and not his mother alone.”

Where? Where does he say that? Where does He ever instruct us to venerate a man or woman?


13 posted on 11/21/2009 3:22:55 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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